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2 * computers, 1 * 4k display, P3d V4.5, Externalsim PSX.NET

Started by Jason M Tutwiler, Thu, 20 Feb 2020 05:57

Jason M Tutwiler

I'm using two networked computers both are hooked up to the same 4k display on two different inputs.  I have the plugin configured.  My machines are SIMBOX and ADDONBOX.  I'm running a boost instance on my ADDON box, along with the router software and the configuration tool.  On my sim box, I have the PSX.NET externalsim addon installed for p3d and a coolsky 747 dummy model and it shows up under addons with P3D. 
Even the router output looks healthy, from a network config standpoint, but I NEVER get P3D to establish itself as a client.  So, does it matter if the boost instance on the ADDONBOX is a client OR server and do I need to be running an additional instance on the SIMBOX machine and should it be a client or server?  I can make the numbers move but just can't get it to become a client.  Below is the output from the router software:

PSX.NET.P3D.ExternalSim.Router 2.5.0
Started at:               20/02/2020 05:44:01 (UTC)
Currently:                20/02/2020 05:49:54 (UTC)
PSX server:     
Loaded config from:       AppData
Feedback publish enabled: False

---PSX Received Counts---------------------------
Boost:                    2599
PSX:                      1225
---Published Counts------------------------------
FlightModel:              2598
TimeModel:                1
GearModel:                133
FlapModel:                175
LightingModel:            175
SpoilerModel:             190
ControlSurfaceModel:      610
TransponderModel:         174
BatteryModel:             175
ParkingBrakeModel:        175
RadioModel:               175
EngineModel:              114
PSX elevation updates:    0
PSX time:                 20/02/2020 05:49:22
Primary P3D Machine Name: SIMBOX
Last 'load1'              20/02/2020 05:44:02 (UTC)
Elevation inhibit:        True
Time sync inhibit:        False
Scheduled time sync:      20/02/2020 09:44:05 (UTC)

No clients.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I've dug through the manual many times.  The only idea I have at this point, is maybe my router is blocking high order ports but that doesn't make sense because a server and client can communicate without P3D. *shrugs*  At any rate, I need to take a break and hopefully figure this out in the morning.  Thank you for anyone who responses and helps.

Jason M. Tutwiler

Hardy Heinlin

I'm no expert (I don't use add-ons myself), but I think there are no add-ons that work just with the boost server alone. All add-ons need the main server. And some of the add-ons need the boost server additionally.

An add-on can use the boost server of a PSX client (computer A),
plus the main server of the PSX server (computer B).

In a local network, the add-on usually connects to the boost server and to the main server of the PSX server (boost server and main server on the same computer).



Not really of any help to the OP question, but I would suggest waiting for XP11.50 ( Vulkan ) and / or MFS, and the corresponding code changes by those who provide the connectors for this visual pltaforms ( for PSX ), before you seriously invest in out-of-windshield views now that both are about to be released ( well XP11.50 really soon as long as I gather from their forums... ).

P3D and even XP10 and XP11 pre-Vulkan are history, IMHO...

Jason M Tutwiler

If LH drops P3D completely, that's going to be super disappointing!  They can't do that!  I know all of the devs are jumping ship but MSFS runs on xbox.  I can't imagine it being anything more than a fancy toy.  P3D is a serious professional tool by a well respected aviation company.  I don't know, but I really don't want P3D to go away.  I know it's an old ESP code base, but they have come so far with it.
Jason M. Tutwiler

Jason M Tutwiler

I bet LH P3D V5 will implement the new vulcan APIs.  As far as flight models, I've read that look up table flight models are actually used in the Level-D sims.  Maybe that's incorrect and Hardy, please elaborate on this if you feel up to it.  I'm going to buy another pro level avionics suite.  If I have to buy a different sim, that will be cheap but at least I'll have two high quality avionic / system models.  PSX 744 and either sim avionics or Project Magenta for the B773.  Not mention, I'll still use P3D.
Jason M. Tutwiler

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

If you base a model on real-life test data, like all professional sims must, you will always end up with table lookup models with a bit of mathematical smoothing between the thousands of data points.

The limitations appear when you want to push the sim outside the tested envelope. This is why you cannot do barrel rolls and loopings etc. in a pro sim (never mind that the hydraulics would run into end stops).


Jason M Tutwiler

Interesting!  This is a great community, thank you for that!  Mathematical smoothing would be something similar to anti aliasing, on par with the nyquist theorm.  Linear algebra.  I did a bit of mathematical digging when younger.  More on the side of DSP but fluid / air dynamics isn't far off. ;)
Jason M. Tutwiler


Quote from: jtmuzix on Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:34
I bet LH P3D V5 will implement the new vulcan APIs.  As far as flight models, I've read that look up table flight models are actually used in the Level-D sims.  Maybe that's incorrect and Hardy, please elaborate on this if you feel up to it.  I'm going to buy another pro level avionics suite.  If I have to buy a different sim, that will be cheap but at least I'll have two high quality avionic / system models.  PSX 744 and either sim avionics or Project Magenta for the B773.  Not mention, I'll still use P3D.

Well, from the PSX + P3D point of view, the P3D FDM is totally useless, actually "turned OFF" by the programs that establish the "visuals" bridge between PSX and P3D.

And yes LevelD flightsims are table based, and AFAIK pSX is too - no problem with that provided you have the necessary data available.

Didn't know P3D v5 could go Vulkan. That's good news!


Concering your ExternalSim issue:

You're setup looks quite ok from what you've provided.
- Router running and talking to PSX  server and boost. OK
- Externalsim running on SIMBOX. OK
- Router connetced to Externalsim on SIMBOX. OK

However, your coolsky model might not be configured to be driven by externalsim as as per Chapter 1 in the manual.
If that's the case you'll end up with what you've described.

To resolve/check:
- Install and run the P3D.ExternalSim.Configuration on your SIMBOX.
- 'SimObject Configuration' is the box you want to look at.
- Browse to the aircraft.cfg of your coolsky model.
- Make sure you see/set the checkmark at 'External Sim Enabled'
- Save the Changes
- Reload you're coolsky model in P3D

Hope that helps.

Jason M Tutwiler

Didn't know P3D v5 could go Vulkan. That's good news!

I'm not sure it can, I thought Vulkan was a directX or OpenGL replacement?
Jason M. Tutwiler

Jason M Tutwiler


Thank you sir!  I did see mention of this config entry but searched for it and couldn't find it within the aircraft.cfg.  So maybe it's something I have to add.
Jason M. Tutwiler

Jason M Tutwiler


I'm well aware that any developer with their salt brings their own flight dynamic model algorithms to the table.  However, Lockheed Martin has a TON of experience in this topic.  All Microsoft has done has shown some flashy alpha videos.  They're slowly releasing more and more and yes, it's interesting that a lot of big name developers are jumping on board.  But, when push comes to shove, LH will far out do MS with respect to flight modeling.  Not saying they will or want to, but they have more resources.  Also, Microsoft ditched the simulation community, tried to come back with Flight.  And now, they're new MSFS will also be available on xbox.  It's not going to be a professional sim.  Much better sticking with P3D, assuming LH doesn't ditch it entirely.  This is why I bought PSX and why I'm going to buy sim-avionics.  They have rock solid flight models and P3D works with both as a scenery generator.
Jason M. Tutwiler

Jason M Tutwiler

Also, keep in mind, it was MS who developed those poor FDMs 20 years ago.  Lockheed has done nothing but improve the product by orders of magnitude.
Jason M. Tutwiler

Jason M Tutwiler

Last but not least, I simply have more confidence in LH than MS when it comes to ANYTHING aviation.  The problem is, Lockheed may not have time because of their huge government contracts.  We'll see.  I know I'll have at a minimum of 2 good avionic platforms, PSX and sim-avionics.  I might get project-magenta eventually as well.  I don't know.  And, ALL of them work with P3D.  So even if P3D dies, the ORBX scenery at 4k is wonderful! :)
Jason M. Tutwiler



I'm not willing to use their sims, MFS, P3D, XP... for the "flight & systems" - just for the visuals when used with PSX.

Should there be an Outerra connector, I would go Outerra...

I really just want the visuals. For 744 simulation there's PSX. For Airbuses, there's really nothing comparable to PSX. I use DCS for flight dynamics desktop experiences in ww2 warbirds :-)

Jason M Tutwiler

There are a few products that aren't 100% comparable to PSX but still very accurate with respect to airbus.  The first one is more like PSX in that it only models the a320 and it's aimed at the pro market with the only charts being Lido Mpilot, it has tons failures and all kinds of ways to understand the systems, either by use or they even provide interactive schematics. 
It's developed by a company entitled Airlinetools which is funded by a large European airline Luft*, I'm sure you can spell it.  :)  Its's systems are extremely deep! The next is FSLabs for P3D.  It's not quite as deep, but it's about a quarter of the price and unless you've flown an a320 and have studied it extensively, (type rated), even the P3D a320 addon is deep.  It doesn't have the learning facilities that the airlinetools product has.  The biggest downfall to the airlinetools sim, is that it has no network stack.  I actually sent them a letter requesting this, because it's honestly what separates the boys from the men. :)  I just got PSX and I love it, I have been exploring the manual and looking for ways to do more with it.  I have been playing with the CMC addon. :)

^That's the best Airbus sim out there.  It's really deep with respect to systems.  I use it a lot and I wish there were more deep systems simulations like PSX and the Airbus software I shared.  That's why I write, I'm going to be investing in avionics software for a Boeing T7 from sim-avionics. 
Jason M. Tutwiler

Jason M Tutwiler

and to be fair, have you tried some of the better addons for P3d?  The devs who bring their own flight models in.  I'll give you a few:
Majestic q400-8
FSLabs a319 - a321
and for GA:

a2asimulations are some of the best.  There trainer Cessna 172 is amazing.  I'd say it's better modeled than the FAA FlyElite software.  I own that too.

Lastly, I've been studying the proline 21 avionics system using:
Milviz King Air 350i.  - It's bar none the best emulation of that avionic system.

What's really catching on is that the aircraft remembers its state / condition.  You lean out the engine or stress the airframe too much, do a hot start, don't monitor oil temp, etc it keeps track of that.   So yeah, I'm guilty of breaking a few aircraft and trust, bad things will happen and stuff will break.  That's what's cool imo.  Makes it more immersive and real life like.

Jason M. Tutwiler



I did own Airlinetools, actually twice :-)

Returned the product twice too.

We could share opinions about why ... through PM maybe.

FSLabs, Toliss A319 were my preferred airbus simulations for the P3D / XP11 platforms, but can't compare.

I believe in terms of fidelity, detail, completeness, there's simply nothing like PSX :-/ IMHO

Jason M Tutwiler

That's what it's all about.  Whatever one enjoys doing with these tools is what's important.  I mean, it's about learning, but everyone has a way to learn that makes it a bit fun.  I'm only instrumented rate and have about 300 hours of flight time in single engine aircraft.  At any rate, do you know how excited I was when I first learned how to build DME arcs.  That's sounds so elementary but it was a serious eye opener.  Ever since then, I tend to look at the FPV slightly differently.  :).  Anyway, nice chatting and I'm going to go back and do something interesting with the sim.   I really want to start connecting things up.  I need to figure out how to implement scenery generation, where I can download xview because I like options.  I also want to use widefs and that other fsiucp program.  I've been looking at the FDS manuals, searching various places, watching videos and its the offsets.  So, it's not really that difficult, it's just time consuming.  I won't be using the offsets until I get sim-avionics. 
Jason M. Tutwiler


Your ExternalSim router looks correctly configured, the problem is either your P3D clients are not set up correctly or they're unable to contact the router (maybe a firewall blocking the ExternalSim router).