Airline options: Flare tones, TDZ

[Hardy Heinlin]

Does anybody know if NWA still uses flare tones instead of aural height callouts during landing?

It's a chime at 30 feet and another one at 10 feet. I never heard the original tones myself.

Somehow mysterious.

(I'm not working on the sound system. I'm just organizing some data structures for general airline options.)

|-|

[stekeller]

Hi Hardy...

From the NWA AOM Dated April 1, 2004 under GPWS Mode 6 'Advisory Tones':

"GPWS tones sound at the following descending radio altitudes:
• 100 feet - 2 second low pitch tone
• 35 feet - 1 second medium pitch tone
• 20 feet - 1/2 second high pitch tone "

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need any additional info.

- Stefan
KORD

[Hardy Heinlin]

Ah, great. Thanks, Stefan.

I'll include three tones then. In Mel Ott's times it was different.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[stekeller]

We all miss him.

I never met him, but he made great contributions to the PS1 community. I often think of him when I see NW/DL 747-400s.

- Stefan

[Hardy Heinlin]

Stefan, do you know if NWA has a TDZ (amber touch down zone) on the PFD altitude tape nowadays?

UAL got one meanwhile.

I think every airline has it nowadays.

Thanks,

|-|ardy

[stekeller]

HH:

I am not sure, but it looks like it.

I could not find a description of that feature, but if you want to, you can send me a PM, I can send you an image from the manual showing what it says the PFD looks like on landing rollout, and it does show a yellow rectangle with diagonal slashes below the displayed altitude.

- Stefan

[Hardy Heinlin]

it does show a yellow rectangle with diagonal slashes below the displayed altitude.

That's clearly the TDZ.

Thanks! :-)

|-|

[Qavion]

There appears to be two versions of the TDZ (Touchdown Zone). One version has purely the runway element. The other version has an additional vertical component stretching up the inside of the speedtape.

The latter version can be seen on airlines like Malaysian, Nippon Air Cargo and Cargolux  (the vertical line appears for takeoff as well as landing).

Airlines like Air France, Northwest and Qantas, have just the vertical component (at least for takeoff). I don't know for sure if the vertical component appears for landing.



Cheers.
Q>

Here is an interesting shot of Lufthansa's TDZ

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa/Boeing-747-430/0249353/L/

However, I don't know if this is takeoff or landing. The aircraft appears to be on the end of the runway with the engines running (ready for takeoff), but the Progress Page shows 16 tonnes of fuel has already been burnt (a short 1 hour flight somewhere).

[Hardy Heinlin]

Is that Lufthansa photo a simulator perhaps?

They entered DLH744 in the PROG page. That's an unusual flight number.

And why does the PROG page show 100 knots TAS?


Cheers,

|-|ardy

[Hardy Heinlin]

Airlines like Air France, Northwest and Qantas, have just the vertical component (at least for takeoff).

You really mean just the vertical component? Or just the slashes on the tape?

Could it be that the vertical line is only displayed when the DH or MDA is set to non-zero?

|-|

[Qavion]

Sorry, I meant to say horizontal component : P (runway part)

[Qavion]

Is that Lufthansa photo a simulator perhaps?

They entered DLH744 in the PROG page. That's an unusual flight number.?

I also suspected a simulator shot.

And why does the PROG page show 100 knots TAS?

The TAS of 100 appears to be a minimum. I also noticed it on one of our 400's yesterday (after arrival, engines shutdown).



Cheers.
Q>

[Qavion]

Re the Lufthansa shot..

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa/Boeing-747-430/0249353/L/


I notice that "GPS" is not annunciated above IRU(3) on the ND, but the aircraft is fitted with an EGPWS Terrain System. It's possible that a GPS card has been fitted internally to the EGPWS computer, but it's strange that the GPS wasn't wired to the FMC.

Other reasons to suspect that it's a sim (apart from Fuel Used still displaying a high value)...
Aircraft at the end of the runway and ...
1) No pilot
2) Baro not set
3) Slider on column checklist not set

Others?

[Qavion]

Just to clarify my earlier statement...

"Airlines like Air France, Northwest and Qantas, have just the horizontal component (at least for takeoff). I don't know for sure if the vertical component appears for landing."

Rgds
Q>

[Lasse]

Hey Hardy


For the TDZ its taken from the FMC RTE page after the route has been activated. Untill then LDG ALT is shown as a flag warning in yellow below the ALT TAPE. As far as I know this is now standart software layout...

The vertical line on the side is called Landing Altitude Reference Bar. The bar is yellow up to 500' then white till 1000'. Used to indicate the stabilized approach gates of 500 and 1000'. Its airline optional.

Hope it helped a little
Lasse

[Qavion]

Untill then LDG ALT is shown as a flag warning in yellow below the ALT TAPE.

Is this an option, Lasse? I've only seen "NO TDZ" annunciated on the PFD.



Rgds
Q>

[Hardy Heinlin]

Thank you, Lasse.

Its airline optional.

All these options ... it never ends ... I'll make it fixed installed, unless somebody insists on "optional" :-) I guess these thin lines won't disturb.

In PS1 it was fixed installed as well (when TDZ was on).

Cheers,

|-|ardy

[Lasse]

Hey

Haha yeah, it never ends with those options... And we are only discussing the flightdeck hahaha....

Anyway I think that making it standart as you surgest is super, keeping the the optional list simple or more relevant....

For the input of Qavion, I stand corrected! The "LDG ALT" is only on B777 and B737NG software...! Sorry, I was so sure it was Seattle build fleet wide, but I have now checked the "holy books from the holy place"... So "NO TDZ" is for B744... (But the good thing is that you cannot pr standard software get the other flag warning hahaha )

Have a nice weekend
Lasse

[Qavion]

P.S. Discovered today that ATLAS Airlines are also missing the vertical line.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Hardy...

From the NWA AOM Dated April 1, 2004 under GPWS Mode 6 'Advisory Tones':

"GPWS tones sound at the following descending radio altitudes:
• 100 feet - 2 second low pitch tone
• 35 feet - 1 second medium pitch tone
• 20 feet - 1/2 second high pitch tone "

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need any additional info.

- Stefan
KORD

Hi again,

in the mode 6 system there are further pin-programmable options such as ...
"FIVE"
"THIRTY-FIVE"
"EIGHTY"
... I've never heard these. I don't include them in PSX. But there's another optional FLARE tone at 500 feet, it sounds for 2 seconds at 960 Hz. I think NWA is the only airline using flare tones. If they don't use this tone at 500 feet, I won't include it in PSX.

... unless somebody shouts "our airline use it" :-)


Cheers,

|-|ardy