Best speakers for engine sounds?

[GodAtum]

Looking to add some speakers for the engine sounds. My thinking is to put a pair at the rear of my sim on the floor. What would be the best frequency response I should look for? A decent pair of PA speakers are 57 Hz - 20 kHz, with a good pair of hifi speakers 30 Hz – 50 kHz.

[Hardy Heinlin]

The sound category "Engines and airframe" also includes the constant rumble of the tires when rolling on the ground (and those occassional bumps), and compressor surges (loud bangs), landing gear retraction etc. Therefore, frequencies above 8 kHz are not important; more important is the lower range. 50 Hz should be the minimum. And the sound system should have a great dynamic range to reproduce the explosive sound of a compressor surge.


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[GodAtum]

Thanks for the info Hardy, very useful. I could get hifi floorstanding speakers and position them at the back of my sim room; or some studio monitors and place them at the back of the cockpit behind the seats ... not sure what other sim builders do?

Ps. does anyone now how many db the engines and airframe should be in the fligthdeck?

[garys]

I run my sound through a stereo receiver utilizing A+B area outputs for a 6 speaker system. I use good quality bookshelf speakers. I've never been a fan of PSX engine sounds so added a Mackie MIX8 channel mixer into the system to adjust the mid high and lows frequencies better to my liking.

[the mad hatter]

I think sound imho is like rock and roll bagpipe music  must be played LOUD .. LOUDER is even better :-)   I am running x6 JBL professionals  Model number 29AV  I think they 300 watts plus..   with 3 x NX4- 6000 Amps by Behringer   via a 10 channel mixer ( which just causes me pain never got it the mixer working) with usual array of Buttkickers x4 the big ones :-)   other sounds come through the flightdeck via cockpit spkers etc  as supposed too via the AMU   i am fortunate I  own the building the sim is housed in and don't care about what my neighbors may think or say  just play it loud  LOL

However I find I just can not get a louder Turbine whine at Engine spool up    I would add more but don't really know what to add ?

does this help you?

[GodAtum]

I run my sound through a stereo receiver utilizing A+B area outputs for a 6 speaker system. I use good quality bookshelf speakers. I've never been a fan of PSX engine sounds so added a Mackie MIX8 channel mixer into the system to adjust the mid high and lows frequencies better to my liking.

Thanks for the info Gary. regarding your A+B area, do you have different sounds for each area or the same?

[garys]

They are the same,  by using the A+B outputs from the single audio input allows for a nice surround sound so I have 2 hi fi bookshelf speakers located behind the crew seats, 2 in the mid section and 2 at the front for the engine sounds.

For all other sounds I have them on separate pc's  so each one can be controlled by each instance of PSX, for eg my environment sounds are on a client machine hooked up to a Logitech 5.1 surround sound speaker system and  located in the overhead.

[GodAtum]

They are the same,  by using the A+B outputs from the single audio input allows for a nice surround sound so I have 2 hi fi bookshelf speakers located behind the crew seats, 2 in the mid section and 2 at the front for the engine sounds.

For all other sounds I have them on separate pc's  so each one can be controlled by each instance of PSX, for eg my environment sounds are on a client machine hooked up to a Logitech 5.1 surround sound speaker system and  located in the overhead.

Interesting, sorry for being dumb but I would have thought the engine sounds should only come from the rear, as they are behind the cockpit?

[garys]

Not dumb at all, You are correct in that engine sounds come from the rear, however they are what I would describe as being dynamic - sound waves move and envelop the whole cockpit in a sense. Although You can definitely tell that the  source of the sound is coming from the rear, I found that in a small enclosed cockpit only having 2 speakers behind the crew seats was very noticeable and adding the extra speakers helped to fill in the sound if that makes sense.

[GodAtum]

Not dumb at all, You are correct in that engine sounds come from the rear, however they are what I would describe as being dynamic - sound waves move and envelop the whole cockpit in a sense. Although You can definitely tell that the  source of the sound is coming from the rear, I found that in a small enclosed cockpit only having 2 speakers behind the crew seats was very noticeable and adding the extra speakers helped to fill in the sound if that makes sense.

Ah I see, makes sense  What model amp do you use? And would you say your speakers go as low as 50 Hz, or do you find that not to be an issue?

[garys]

Amp is an old Yamaha RX-v450. My speakers only go down to 55hz but I don't find that to be an issue.  I use PSX vibrate for anything that needs the lower frequencies.

[GodAtum]

Amp is an old Yamaha RX-v450. My speakers only go down to 55hz but I don't find that to be an issue.  I use PSX vibrate for anything that needs the lower frequencies.

Cool! Regarding speaker positioning, do you have line of sight, or are they hidden behind the fuselage?

[garys]

Amp is an old Yamaha RX-v450. My speakers only go down to 55hz but I don't find that to be an issue.  I use PSX vibrate for anything that needs the lower frequencies.

Cool! Regarding speaker positioning, do you have line of sight, or are they hidden behind the fuselage?

Both, the 2 rear ones I have inside the cockpit on the floor behind the crew seats so about 24" behind me. The sides and front are outside my shell, so the sound is a little softer but as these are more for filling in the area to help reduce the pinpoint sound coming directly from the speakers behind it balances well.

[GodAtum]

Would you say having the shell reduces the phase combing effects of speakers cancelling and reinforcing each other?

[Hardy Heinlin]

Phase combing effects? Do you output some continuous sounds (ram air noise, engine noise etc.) from multiple computers? If so, you should use just one computer for one sound group. E.g. don't use the engine sounds on computer A and computer B; use the engine sounds on just one computer. There is a delay of some milliseconds between the computers, and the sound pitch may vary slightly on each computer. If you mix these different outputs, you'll get a flanger effect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanging

[GodAtum]

Thanks for the info Hardy.

I guess I also need to consider sounds from P3D (soon to the MSFS), which I believe are 5.1.  I'm thinking another set of 5.1 PC speakers on the walls of my sim room (creating an outer wall of sound), with the inner wall of sound using PSX.

Not sure if that would sound awful or not!

[asboyd]

I have a multi- source setup using 3 computers running PSX, on top of that I use P3D to give environmental effects from rex environment plus... I take out a bit of the top end on the environment to simulate it being "outside" the cockpit. But storms and rain work well....

Cheers,
AlexB

[GodAtum]

Just setup a new pair of KALI AUDIO LP-6 studio monitors to my Motu Stage B16. They sound amazing ... great rumbling low end and treble too! I've positioned them to the rear of my sim facing me.

[Zapp]

Ah I see, makes sense  What model amp do you use? And would you say your speakers go as low as 50 Hz, or do you find that not to be an issue?

Regarding frequency response: as a Hi-end enthusiast I know now, after 40 years of research (and money spent) how really low frequencies are supposed to sound. Listening to speakers that REALLY go as low as 18 Hz, driven by a VERY capable amplifier (power, sure, but a lot of control of counterelectromotive force is also needed) is something else.

So, don't trust the declared values, don't underestimate the amplifier, and don't forget that your room will also sound, producing not-too-slight modifications, reverbarations, absorptions, that will modify the overall frequency response of the whole system.

All in all, pay attention because your ears are better than you think: listening to an obviously artificial loud sound will subtract a lot from your immersion: in that case, turn the volume down to reduce the effect.

Good luck with your quest for the perfect low frequency sound!