EICAS ECS synoptic

[Hardy Heinlin]

Good morning,

are the USA the only country using Fahrenheit? If so, my question is not so difficult: Are there any US 744 operators using Fahrenheit on the ECS synoptic for the cabin temp indicators?

It would be nice if they don't. It would spare me the installation of option checkbox number 999.


Cheers,

|-|ardy

[stekeller]

Hardy:

This is from an old NW manual...

"Temperature Control:
Flight deck and passenger cabin air temperature is controlled automatically by a zone temperature controller. A backup mode commands an average passenger cabin temperature of 65°F to 85°F. A manual mode for temperature control is available for the flight deck. The zone temperature controller also provides automatic system overheat protection...

Cabin Temperature Panel:
The desired temperature of each passenger zone may be further modified plus or minus
10°F within the range of 65°F to 85°F from the comfort corrected master temperature. This is accomplished with the cabin temperature panel located at door 2 right..."

Also, the illustration of the synoptic shows F values (TEMP *F) with values ranging from 77 to 79.

Hope this helps! If you need more details, you can PM me.

- Stefan

[John H Watson]

I'm sure NWA pilots are flexible enough to live with cabin temps in degC....

I'm looking at photo of a NWA cockpit with TAT in C, Fuel Temp in C, but fuel load in lbs, duct pressures in psi, speed in kts, altitude in feet, baro in inches, etc  :mrgreen:

[the mad hatter]

because pilots are not that bright... one carries a conversion chart ;-)

[Jeroen D]

This hopefully (PPL) soon to be pilot carries a Sporty E6B electronic flight computer to do all the conversions. Being Metric born and raised, even after 2 years in the US I don't get this Fahrenheit scale.

Jeroen

[torrence]

Re F and C scales:

I'm a scientist and have been using metric for most of my career, but immersed in a USA 'English' unit world.  Temps seem to be one of the hardest units to get a 'feel' for in a system you didn't grow up with (even worse when dealing with the press - we're usually using Kelvins in the science world and they usually want to know that is in F).  I've finally trained myself to 'think' in C by setting all my household and auto sensors in metric, and I now immediately know that 10 is cool, 20 is 'room temp' 30 is pretty warm and 40 is darned hot (a frequent reading in S. California summer), and -40 is where both scales read the same.

An interesting factoid about F is that the scale is not as intrinsically irrational as a metric trained person might assume.  When setting up temp measuring scales, early scientists chose tie points that were easy to reproduce for calibration - the freezing and boiling temperature of water - and put a logical number of 'degrees' between them.  For metric, for instance, 0-100, a 'linear' type thinking, but many early gauges used circular dials, and the F choice of 180 degrees between freezing and boiling wasn't particularly weird - the needle moved half way around a dial for this important range.

I've forgotten why 32 was chosen as the F 'zero' point, but the main result was to turn generations of American kids against metric from having to remember the cumbersome "9/5 times C plus 32 = F" conversion.  I still have a hard time remembering it.  My personal mental conversion is quick interpolation between known tie points (0C/32F;10C/50F;20C/68F;30C/86F;40C/104F; etc) using approx. 2 F deg for each C deg - sounds cumbersome but it works for me.

In any case, as JHW notes, international aviation is hardly a paragon of virtue with respect to consistency in units.  In fact it's a horrible hodge-podge  

Cheers,
Torrence

[John H Watson]

Something I hadn't thought of earlier:

As previously stated, in cruise, the purser is allowed limited control of individual cabin zone aircon temps (+/- 5degC of the cabin target temperature set by the pilots) via his own control panel, but only if his adjustment is within the limits of the normal airconditioning system temp control range (18~29C).

I wonder if the purser has his own mental or physical conversion chart to help with temperature control? :mrgreen:

[John Golin]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news - I'm looking at the 2001 Ops manual for 747-441 International Lease Corp; Page 288 has a synoptic with temperatures in Fahrenheit.

[Mundyas]

Good Morning

Having been brought up on Fahrenheit (F), I was taught many years ago an easy conversion.

Double the temperature in Celsius and add 30 to get Fahrenheit. (Not completely accurate but near enough).

I too have a copy of the 2001 Ops Manual (747-441) and on page 295 (2.20.3) it mentions the Zone Target Temperature Control on the Flight Deck is set in F!!

I still think in F though! but have almost got used to being weighed in kg, though I am a  touch heavier since I was 20.
 
UK TV and Radio weather reports seldom mention F now.
Andrew

PS - Er it is 15C here just now about 60F, not bad for early morning!

[the mad hatter]

I can post the conversion charts and there is a few of them but how?

[Hardy Heinlin]

OK, the Fahrenheit option is included in PSX.

(By the way, it's also included on the FMC THRUST REF page in PS1/PSX, but there it appears only by entering an assumed temp with an "F" suffix.)

...

Another question: Does anybody have a photo of the ECS synoptic while all packs are off and while duct L or R has normal pressure?


Cheers,

|-|ardy

[John H Watson]

and while duct L or R has normal pressure?

Can you define "normal"?  :mrgreen:

APU-sourced bleed air? Engine-sourced bleed air? Externally-sourced bleed air?

All 3 vary.

Are you interested in flow bars, pressures, pack indications and cabin temperatures, generally, or something specific?

Rgds
JHW

[Hardy Heinlin]

I'd like to see if that thin white line which goes to the duct rectangle can be a destination of a green flow bar while all other destinations (packs, AI) are off.

Normally, on all synoptics (ELEC, HYD, FUEL, PACKS, AI) a green flow bar always ends in a "thick piece of tube", if you see what I mean. The duct symbol doesn't look like that, it rather looks like a "sensor" where the air "runs by" instead of ending there.


Cheers,

|-|ardy

[delcom]

Another question: Does anybody have a photo of the ECS synoptic while all packs are off and while duct L or R has normal pressure?


Cheers,

|-|ardy

Sure thing, Hardy. I'll dig in my photos.

What's so interesting about that? There will be no green flow lines, no green EXT AIR, only white (or amber) pressure readout.

EDIT: sorry, just read your next post...graphics we're talking about here.

regards,
d

[Hardy Heinlin]

My previous question in other words:

When all packs are off and a duct pressure indicator reads 20+ psi, is there any green flow bar going to that duct pressure indicator?


]-[

[delcom]

My previous question in other words:

When all packs are off and a duct pressure indicator reads 20+ psi, is there any green flow bar going to that duct pressure indicator?


]-[

That's a negative, Sir.

cheers,
delcom

[Hardy Heinlin]

PS1 seems correct then. I just wondered because it looks a bit unusual.

[delcom]

Make it 11 psi +, to avoid confusion.

d

[Hardy Heinlin]

Is a green flow bar removed if the respective pressure is below 11 psi? E.g. a flow bar to an AI or a pack, is this bar removed if the pressure at the AI or pack is below 11 psi?


|-|

[delcom]

Hardy, I just meant the "normal" duct pressure. It is 11 psi when the readout changes color (amber/white). You've mentioned 20+, not sure what that number is (that would be indeed a healthy random white readout).

d