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Real World Audio Control Panel Functionality

Started by John Golin, Mon, 4 Jul 2011 03:18

John Golin

G'day;

With the buttons and knobs of the ACPs included in PSX, I'm trying to get a head start figuring out what Matt will be expecting Rod and I to be able configure in the sim when PSX becomes the engine, as well as what might actually be possible! Somehow I think we'll need all the time we can get - no rush on PSX Hardy!  :mrgreen:

I've been reading the 2001 Ops manual that I found on the Internet and have a grasp on the basic behaviour of the Audio Control Panels and some of the overrides.  What I am still trying to get a grasp on is FLT, CAB and PA behaviors, and when and what the crew hear over headsets and speakers.  Some of the questions below may have been answered in the past  (or seem really obvious) so apologies if covering old ground - many are relevant to how hardware is configured in the Sim and what will need to be sent to PSX as a trigger.

Queries:

ALL NOW ANSWERED (except minor CAB - pickup handset Question)
 Please see John H's post below.


* FLT - Is there a 'transmit' button for the ground crew when they want to talk to the flightdeck?

* FLT - CALL Light - what triggers this? Is there a CALL Button for ground crew to push? Transmit button push by ground crew? Other?

* FLT - Scenario: PF selects FLT MIC. PNF and OBS select to receive FLT.  Can they hear CPT without the CPT pressing PTT (ie is the mic hot on FLT)?

* CAB - the station selection occurs on the aft end panel, the MIC selection here allows use of a headset rather than / in addition to  the handset?

* CAB - if someone picks up the handset does it affect CAB via the headsets, or is it just a party line?

* CAB - is the MIC hot on the CAB line when CAB selected or does the pilot have to press PTT?

* R/T / INT switch: Pressing to R/T is equivalent to PTT on currently selected MIC.  pushing to INT is always 'PTT' on FLT?

* MIC - when a MIC button is pushed and the associated receiver is not already manually selected, the receiver is automatically enabled BUT the green light does not come on?

* PTT - when a pilot (CPT) uses PTT (PTT pressed):
- Do they hear themselves in their headset?
- Does the pilot (CPT in this case) continue to hear ALL their selected receivers  on their headset?
- If they have identical receiver selected as CPT, do the other crew hear the CPT in their headset?
- If they have identical receiver NOT selected, does the crew hear the CPT in their headset?
- If the onside speaker is selected, is the speaker muted on PTT?
- are offside speakers muted on PTT?
- if not (and sort of an extension of the above questions), if the crew have identical receiver selected and speaker selected, is the CPT heard over the offside speakers?


* Are there any situations in which the boom mics are hot to others on the flightdeck?  Note I don't care about CVR or handheld / oxygen.


Whew! I think that's it.

Not sure what will evolve into for the Sim, but getting the source info right from the start will save any re-work.

Thanks :)

edited, as usual, for speling and. gramar
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

Blake H

Build the hardware correct... The usual input and outputs.

The audio knobs are pots with momentary. They can be made with a standard pot, spring and microswitch.

If PSX software can't do it, nothing is impossible to program. I am not a programmer but my mate is, he says nothing is impossible.

PSX most likely to be true. Build correct and program accordingly.  
 8)

John Golin

#2
Ah yes - but for example, I need to know these sort of things to understand if there is actually a physical button ground crew press to trigger the call light ;)  

It's more about understanding the real world ACP. :)  I've changed the title of the thread to be a bit clearer.

Cheers!

John
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

Hardy Heinlin

For the call lights there are trigger variables available via network.

The buttons shown on this Instructor page ...

http://aerowinx.com/forum/topic.php?id=292

... use those trigger variables.

I'll tell you the Qi index ...


Cheers,

|-|ardy

John Golin

Thanks Hardy!

So that implies that there is, in real life,  a discrete button for the ground crew? And a separate PTT button ? Of course you've built in the triggers... I never doubted :)
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

Hardy Heinlin

Yes, there's a button at the nose gear and other locations.

John Golin

John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

Matt Sheil

John we will have such a button and headset at the computer rack to call the cockpit, assumption will be we are at nose gear for push back commands we can also wire and duplicate this to the instructors station

John Golin

#8
Bastard. I figured you'd say that.
Is there a PTT on these ground headsets (in Real Life)?
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

Matt Sheil

Quote from: John GolinBastard. I figured you'd say that.
Is there a PTT on these ground headsets (in Real Life)?
Yes John, the headset cable that plugs in to the plane, has a push to talk button also the panel has a call button next to the plug in for the headset, I am sure we have a picture somewhere or someone will get you a picture of this panel.

Shiv Mathur

Quote from: John Golinedited, as usual, for speling and. gramar

 :roll:

John Golin

Quote from: Shiv Mathur
Quote from: John Golinedited, as usual, for speling and. gramar

 :roll:

 :mrgreen:
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

John Golin

Thanks Matt - makes my thinking easier - I am hoping we don't have to deal with any voice activated stuff...
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

John H Watson

Quote* FLT - Is there a 'transmit' button for the ground crew when they want to talk to the flightdeck?

As previously mentioned, only on the engineer's headset.

Quote* FLT - CALL Light - what triggers this? Is there a CALL Button for ground crew to push? Transmit button push by ground crew? Other? Yes - call button

A dedicated momentary pushbutton on the nosewheel panel

Quote* FLT - Scenario: PF selects FLT MIC. PNF and OBS select to receive FLT. Can they hear CPT without the CPT pressing PTT (ie is the mic hot on FLT)?

No hotmic for crew communication purposes. Even the oxygen mask mic requires a PTT.

Quote* CAB - the station selection occurs on the aft end panel, the MIC selection here allows use of a headset rather than / in addition to the handset?

Not sure what you mean. You have an option of lifting the handset or pushing CAB (that simulates "handset off hook"). It's easier to push a button rather than get the handset out of the cradle. When you have a boomset, its a bit like a handsfree setup.

Quote* CAB - if someone picks up the handset does it affect CAB via the headsets, or is it just a party line?

Haven't tried it.


Quote* CAB - is the MIC hot on the CAB line when CAB selected or does the pilot have to press PTT?

I'd say he would need to press the PTT. I think I press it out of habit anyway  :mrgreen:

Quote* R/T / INT switch: Pressing to R/T is equivalent to PTT on currently selected MIC. pushing to INT is always 'PTT' on FLT?

Correct. Toggling INT with any mic button selection on the selector panel results in transmission on the Flight Interphone (and service interphone if linked up). Sidetone is dependent on selector panel selection.

Quote* MIC - when a MIC button is pushed and the associated receiver is not already manually selected, the receiver is automatically enabled BUT the green light does not come on?

Correct.

Quote* PTT - when a pilot (CPT) uses PTT (PTT pressed):
- Do they hear themselves in their headset?

Reception is based on MIC or receiver button selection. The Audio Management Unit combines all the selected receiver audio and sends it all to your headset  :|

Quote- Does the pilot (CPT in this case) continue to hear ALL their selected receivers on their headset?

Yes.

Quote- If they have identical receiver selected as CPT, do the other crew hear the CPT in their headset?

Do you mean if the CPT speaks on, say, VHF Left and they have VHF Left selected (MIC or Receiver). If so, yes.

Quote- If they have identical receiver NOT selected, does the crew hear the CPT in their headset?

No (if you mean both MIC and receiver button).

Quote- If the onside speaker is selected, is the speaker muted on PTT?
- are offside speakers muted on PTT?

Yes and yes (with oxygen mask stowed, muting is applied to both speakers). This is applicable to Capt/FO (and the 1st Obs panel if the Captain or FO has command if the 1st Obs panel).


Quote- if not (and sort of an extension of the above questions), if the crew have identical receiver selected and speaker selected, is the CPT heard over the offside speakers?

Not heard.

Quote* Are there any situations in which the boom mics are hot to others on the flightdeck? Note I don't care about CVR or handheld / oxygen.

The control column switch latches in INT, but it might not be what you call a hot mic.

Rgds
JHW.

farrokh747

now that's an answer...! Thanks for this john. The ACP is a complex little box -

A Q: when flying online, squawkbox supports 2 com freq's active - say vhf 1 and vhf 2. Now the problem is that the audio coming thru the PC (and the voice servers) is on a single channel - ie, both the coms are pumped thru one audio out. In this case, how does one split this internally to make use of PSX's ACP functions? I couldn't find a way around this....

fc

John Golin

#15
John, thankyou. You have correctly interpreted my questions and provided exactly the sort of answers I needed.

Much appreciated!
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

John Golin

#16
Quote from: farrokh747The ACP is a complex little box -


Though fortunately it is also simpler than I feared :)

In Squawkbox can't you map the audio from the different radios to different devices? It's been a while, but I'm sure you can?

edit: yes you can.
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

farrokh747

yes indeed it is...  i never looked at the voice settings, just the comm/radio...  thanks for the tip, this makes things much better..

fc

John Golin

The provided info has been very helpful in my planning - I now have a couple of followup questions.

On the overhead there is an "OBS Audio System Override"  switch, which I gather from reading basically allows the CPT or FO to use the OBS audio panel.

Now -
If the CPT (or FO) moves the switch from Norm to their 'side', does the Observer still hear everything selected (ie the CPT or FO is just an additional input or output) or is the OBS bumped off the ACP altogether and hears nothing?


Cheers!

John
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

John H Watson

Quote from: John GolinOn the overhead there is an "OBS Audio System Override"  switch, which I gather from reading basically allows the CPT or FO to use the OBS audio panel.

Now -
If the CPT (or FO) moves the switch from Norm to their 'side', does the Observer still hear everything selected (ie the CPT or FO is just an additional input or output) or is the OBS bumped off the ACP altogether and hears nothing?

There seems to be some differences between the diagrams and how the system behaves, so further checks are warranted.

On a short test today:
Obs Audio System Override switch to "Captain": Observer can still hear the selections made on his panel, but can't transmit. The diagrams suggest that the Observer is cut off completely (via relays inside the AMU), but this doesn't sound very safe.

Rgds
JHW