Multiple joystick cards / OEM TQ

[assaero]

Hey,
I am working on a private 744 sim which uses an OEM airframe. The sim was running PSX before, got now a reinstallation with current PSX version and X-Plane as IG. I encounter several items I would like to improve. For this topic, I am looking for ideas for this:
-The original simulator builder hooked up all flight control axis' to 3 leobodnar cards. PSX is limited to 2 USB gamecontrollers. The solution of the original builder was to write a custom winforms application that allows reading out a multitude of USB controllers, calibrate them, and then transmit them as shaped data to PSX. This however has several issues - I do not have the source, and the software runs unstable on current OS. Furthermore no input shaping for the elevator is possible, and I am very limited with IO to other items besides basic flightcontrols. Furthermore Throttle input freezes often after a few seconds to minutes of not touching the (not motorized) TQ. As soon as I switch the AT into some speed mode and then disengage the AT again, the TQ becomes responsive again for another period of time before repeating. @Hardy, do you have an idea why this input deactivation occurs?
-the TQ has only a single potentiometer per Thrust Lever. As this is an OEM TQ, the forward thrust range and the reverser are one single axis. In the PSX interface itself, I can only assign axis to input type, and the input type is only EITHER forward thrust OR reverser, not a combined range. Any suggestions?
-as described, the sim uses 3 joystick cards due to cabling layout and design, and PSX only shows the first two detected cards. @Hardy can this limitation be extended somehow? For me to at least 3 USB joysticks, but I am sure a more useful limit would be 5-6 devices. Or does anybody suggest another plugin/tool to feed analogue data externally? I do not want to write another custom tool that depreceates as well in a few cycles and needs to be maintained by myself.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi,

I don't know why your throttle interface freezes. I'm sorry.

I think PSX accepts up to 255 USB components. I don't know why your third component is not detected. You could plug your third USB component into another computer which runs a PSX client and connect this client with the PSX server via the PSX main network.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[Roddez]

Hi ??,

You should have a look at our SimStack product.

It's an Ethernet based solution that has been used in many OEM cockpit conversion.  It can handle all flight control and throttle inputs.

Check out our website for more details:
Check out our website for more details.

Regards,

Rod.

[assaero]

Hey Hardy,
thanks, but that support might be internal only? - in the GUI list I get only the first two enumerated joystick cards shown, I can even reproduce this with a different joystick (non-bodnar). Also secondly how would you realize assignment of a real TQ if no axis to multiple assignments are possible? I checked in the config itself but the enumeration there is not clear to me; is there a workaround possible?

@Roddez I am aware of your product line and like it, if the customer ever wants to invest more and proper money to actually make more of the flightdeck functional I have your company on a shortlist for interface options for some time already ;-) But you know how it is, entertainment customers never listen...

[Hardy Heinlin]

Also secondly how would you realize assignment of a real TQ if no axis to multiple assignments are possible?

Normally, this is possible, of course. Sorry, I don't know what is blocking your USB detection after the second component. Do you use a Corsair mouse by chance? If so, you may want to check this:

https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php/topic,5984.0.html

How many axes and buttons does one of your USB controllers provide?

[assaero]

The customer sim is wired to three BU0836X, so per card 8 analogue, 32 switch inputs. And the List ends after card 2. If I hook up the complete USB setup to a test laptop, its the same behaviour (tested with win10 22H2 and 11 24H2, different USB chipsets).
Regarding the axis assignments: what am I missing then? In the USB assignments I show the axis and then can assign a function to the axis. In the possible assignments I see only thrust lever or reverser, no combined axis. And no possibility to multiply / display the same axis multiple times. Neither do I find any infos for this in the manual. Or am I missing something?

Post: and no, no Corsair input devices attached. The IG has only the three bodnar cards, an usb audio device, a generic wifi dongle, three FDS CDUs and an old CPFlight MCP connected via USB. No other HID devices.

[Hardy Heinlin]

What I meant is this:

Connect your bodnar No.1 with the USB of computer A
Connect your bodnar No.2 with the USB of computer A

Connect your bodnar No.3 with the USB of computer B

Connect A and B via the PSX TCP/IP network. If you run a cockpit sim, you probably already run multiple networked computers anyway.

What do you mean by "combined axis"? In PSX there are options to assign any USB axis to a single throttle; or to the left or right throttle pair; or to all four throttles at once.

[macroflight]

After reading this thread, I think the OP has a throttle quadrant that has one USB axis per engine, which covers the entire range from full reverse to full throttle. AFAIK there is no way to use such a device with the built-in USB support in PSX.

A way to add such support would be to add a new USB axis type "Throttle+Reverse", but it would need a 4-point calibration rather than the 3 points that the current axes have (full reverse, idle reverse, idle, full power).

Unless the OP's throttle axes are very nonlinear, that relatively simple change could work well. Otherwise, more advanced calibration settings are needed (maybe something like the MSFS axis sensitivity settings: sensitivity, reactivity, ...).

(If the OP changes his mind about writing his own code, I can recommend Python with the pygame module and Hoppie's PSX module. Python's been around since the 80:s, pygame since 2000. I'm using it to connect USB axes and buttons to PSX in various ways. Inspiration can be found in https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php/topic,5448.0.html and on https://github.com/macroflight/psxhacks)

[assaero]

Yes, @macroflight is correct in what is meant. On the OEM TQ the whole movement from full forward thrust to full reverse thrust is one continuous range.
@Hardy the whole simulator is running on two computers, one IG running also PSX and an instrument PC. The instrument PC is intended as only output so that it can be rebooted and handled during a flight independantly, and I would like not to just throw in another PC just for one bodnar card if I can avoid it at all. Can you at all reproduce the limitation of the 2 controllers per computer or is it not even visible on your side?

[Hardy Heinlin]

I don't know why it is limited in your system. I'm sorry. There's no such limit in my code, so there's nothing I could modify for you.

one IG running also PSX and an instrument PC

What is an "IG" and an "instrument PC"?

[assaero]

Hey,
IG is an image generator, e.g. something producing the outside visuals. The term is reminescent from the time where training simulators had to use one PC per outside view channel (e.g. per projector) due to calculation power constraints. An instrument PC is a PC which is used only to display digital instrument screens, so DUs and CDUs.
I will review then if I can perhaps produce some screenshots to demonstrate in the next week, I should also have some bodnars lying in the shop.
Regarding the combined Forward thrust / thrust reverser axis - is this a possibility to implement?

[Hardy Heinlin]

Does your instrument PC show PSX displays, i.e. is it in the PSX network? If so, you could use that PC for your third bodnar.

I have no plans to extend the USB stuff. Actually, PSX is primarily designed for TCP/IP networking, and I highly recommend to use that instead of USB, especially in big and complex simulators.

[assaero]

Yes, but that would invalidate the separation of having all hardware running into the IG/main PC... But okay, I see I will have to offer the customer to order a custom written interface to translate. Thanks.