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Ryanair asks Boeing for standing pax design

Started by Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers, Mon, 6 Jul 2009 17:39

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Apparently Ryanair, the major European cheap carrier, has asked Boeing to design a solution for a part of the passengers to be carried standing up.

The idea is that with a leaning rest and hip belt, many more people can be carried in a bus-like setting without sacrificing much if any safety.

Paying for toilets in flight is another Ryanair idea that is being implemented. Completely doing away with check-in, and having all passengers carry their luggage (without surcharge) to the airstairs where it will be taken over by crew to be loaded (and unloaded at the destination for pickup at the tarmac) is another way of reducing significant handling costs.

Shiv Mathur


Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers


Mundyas

Hi

I thought a Chinese airline had already suggested this earlier this year. YES Really!!

AND airline had already asked if Airbus manufacturers if this would be OK. To be told YES. Was I dreaming!!

I have been a strap hanger on the London Underground in a previous life but think a 12 hour flight to Hong Kong just a tad too long for me. And as for the 15 hour Emirates sector Dubai to Brisbane I think a seat please!

And you get charged for using the loo as well? So pay a £1 and sit there all flight!

Perhaps we are going back to flying standing on the wing to WOW the crowds as in early days of flying.

A

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Nah.

Sedated, packed in containers, stowed in the cargo bay. Cattle Class, like it should be...

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

But seriously. I sort of like the bus style Ryanair no-fuss flights as long as they are not much more than two hours. I can easily stand the zero luxury environment and Ryanair remains Europe's most punctual airline. I just hate the trumpet serenade they play when they touch down "again on schedule!!"   :evil:

Hardy Heinlin

#6
If they want the pax to go more often to the toilet they'll have to make their drinks cheaper. I'm sure finance experts have already developped a toilet-and-drink formula for best profit.

...

How about free drinks? Then make one toilet visit 12 $.

It's like those free salty peanuts in the pubs, just vice versa.


!-!


One more idea: On long haul flights offer a standing area for 3 $ per minute. If you sit in your narrow economy seat for so long you will, for a change, love to stand for some minutes.

Hessel Oosten

Quotefinance experts have already developped a toilet-and-drink formula for best profit

A new:  Cost Index !

Hessel

Phil Bunch

Here's a different take on the story, from the Wall Street Journal's airline travel columnist. The story makes a better "April 1 joke" than literal truth.  Still, since airline accidents are so infrequent, perhaps we should give up pretending that it's essential to all be strapped in air bag-equipped 16 G-resistant seats.  The weight limit consideration for increased passenger and luggage loads might be harder to overcome - just a speculation on my part.

I think the issue of bouncing around during turbulence is more of an issue for any attempt to fly standing than the issue of dying in a crash.  There aren't enough crashes to worry about, IMO, but there is plenty of turbulence in a day's airline flights.  Perhaps some good engineering (padding plus fancy straps?) could even make standing while flying become reasonable safe?

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009/07/07/why-there-wont-be-standing-room-only-jets-or-pay-toilets-not-even-on-ryanair/tab/print/



There are two reports scuttling around the Internet about standing-room-only airplane flights. Don't believe either one.

A private Chinese airline says it would like to offer bar-stool type seating to pack more people onto airplanes. And lest any free publicity slip away, Ryanair jumped on that bandwagon. Chairman Michael O'Leary told a U.K. newspaper he's "considering" a plan to offer cheap "bar-stool'' type seating on some flights.

Exaggerated stories of standing-room seating on planes have come up before, and they've been untrue. The New York Times learned that lesson the hard way — in 2006, the paper reported that Airbus was considering offering standing-room "seating" to pack more passengers on jets. The story was retracted.

The problem with all of this is physics. Airplane seats–whatever shape they may be–and the passengers in them have to withstand significant forces to be certified as airworthy. That means they must stay intact against 16 g's of force, so that the people strapped in have a chance to survive a crash.

Good luck with a bar stool. You'd have to be wearing a heck of a harness bolted to a bar stool, and the stool itself, with one leg instead of four, would have to be darn strong. Engineers out there can debate whether it's possible, but Airbus said a few years ago there was no way.

In addition, airplanes are certified for a maximum number of passengers, based largely on the ability to get everyone out quickly through emergency exits. Low-cost carriers in Europe and Asia typically toe those limits already. You can't significantly change the seating density without adding more emergency exits.
Best wishes,

Phil Bunch

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

#9

Hardy Heinlin

I like that. I like amusement parks.

JM1053139

#11
If the Japanese carriers with all of their domestic flights and already high-density seating aren't doing this, then somehow I doubt Ryanair will be either.

I highly doubt Boeing is going to go through the trouble of designing this for one carrier. Add to that Phil's point that their planes are already near or at maximum capacity, and all of this does seem like one giant publicity stunt; that is, unless they will be asking Boeing to add more emergency exits, perhaps a la 737-900 (seems even less likely).

Honestly, sometimes I wish the media would check their facts first and ignore things like this. Write up the article when it actually happens, or have one ready in case it does.
-Jon Monreal

Shiv Mathur

Since the website said they wanted to know if people would be willing to travel this way FREE,
it shows it's 'one giant publicity stunt'. Why would they go through all the trouble without any prospect of financial gain?
Can one really blame the media this time ? ... it WAS on the ryanair website !!

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Travel for free does not mean that you don't pay. EasyJet has repeatedly stated they believe in a business model where you don't pay the flight, but you pay the hotel. The hotel pays the flight. Marketing is beautiful.

Peter Lang

Quote from: Shiv MathurSince the website said they wanted to know if people would be willing to travel this way FREE,
it shows it's 'one giant publicity stunt'. Why would they go through all the trouble without any prospect of financial gain?
Can one really blame the media this time ? ... it WAS on the ryanair website !!

And of course that's their trick: a lot of people automatically say yes if they get something for free without thinking of the consequences. And the amount of "yes" gives them the authority proceed acoording their intentions.

Peter

Zinger

#15
Eastern Shuttle flew 1961-1991 from JFK to Washington National and Boston Logan and back, no check-in, you left luggage on a rack on the way into the aircraft and purchased a ticket onboard during flight . It was supposed to depart every hour, but actually departed also whenever an aircraft filled, so you never waited more than 10-15 minutes regardless of when you showed up. With a Lockheed Electra it took 35 minutes to DC, so an hour after you stepped off transportation in Kennedy and $39 you could be on the Mall in Washington.

In the late 70's a few companies, notably American, pioneered automated check-in utilizing machines in the departure halls of major airports. At that time the offline machine didn't read all details by itself and the passeneger had to type-in details such as name and flight number. You could have theoretically inserted a flight coupon worth $35 and fly LAX to JFK using a false name, because the coupons were processed manually hours later :evil: .

At that time I often used "electronic ticketing"- called my agent to purchase a flight, drove 20 minutes to the airport, stated my name at check-in , got the ticket and seat from the check-in counter. Billed monthly by the agent to the office, including a $3 surcharge for this efficient way to travel. In the hall you had an American Express travellers checks dispenser with $1000 ceiling, as not every business used credit cards. Some 30 years later I realized I had lost a few $100 such checks, mailed that company a claim, and following a short toll-free phone to Miami, got all of it reimbursed.
Regards, Zinger

Holger Wende

In India some riksha drivers offer to drive tourists to any location. The price: "You pay as you like".
Of course such rides include several stops at selected souvenir shops :evil:
This model seems to work fine already for many people and business sectors.

Holger

P.S. Did someone think about packing passengers horizontally in a dormitory bunk style...  ;)

martin

The picture above kept nagging at me -- I knew this could be optimized.
Now the penny finally has dropped: capacity and profit increase of 33% with no additional hardware!
(Actually less hardware: no folding tables any more -- what use are they anyway on this type of flight...!)


All royalties to Greenpeace, please.

Martin

Hardy Heinlin

Excellent.

Ladies and gentlemen in mixed groups?

!-i

martin

Yep. Trousers mandatory.
(if that's what you had in mind   :shock:  ).

|/\\|

PS.
Quote from: Hardy!-i
Genial! :D
I wish your first name were Ivan to see what then could be done with the initial...