Network for a beginner

[Will]

I have one of the FDS CDUs, as described here by Hoppie:

https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php/topic,6219.msg67215.html#msg67215

I'm thinking about adding another, but I can't do that without building more of a network at home.

Currently my computer has one ethernet port, and I connected CDU#1 directly to it with an ethernet cable, and it's been working perfectly for the last two or three years.

If I added a second one, I'm thinking I'd buy a switch, which would probably come with about 5 ports. I'd plug the computer into one port, and then CDU#1 and CDU#2 into two other ports. Is it that simple?

Would the PC "see" both CDUs right away without too much trouble, or is there a lot of software engineering that has to be done for the computer and each CDU to start talking properly?

Regarding my skill set, I can follow directions very well, but I will need some guidance with the beginning steps since I've never done this before. For example, "just network everything together, and then set up the software" is not helpful advice for me. I need to know what plugs into what, and what software needs to be configured.

I'm saying all of this because I don't want to commit the cash to buying a unit that I won't be able to set up properly. Any thoughts and tips would be helpful.

Thanks everyone.

[voipmeister]

I'm thinking about adding another, but I can't do that without building more of a network at home.

Currently my computer has one ethernet port, and I connected CDU#1 directly to it with an ethernet cable, and it's been working perfectly for the last two or three years.

If I added a second one, I'm thinking I'd buy a switch, which would probably come with about 5 ports. I'd plug the computer into one port, and then CDU#1 and CDU#2 into two other ports. Is it that simple?

Hi Will,

By adding a switch to your network, you're basically extending your home network with extra ports. The cable that runs from your computer to any device that provides it with internet should go in the new switch, placed near the PC. The PC and CDUs can be connected to the new switch. Any simple (unmanaged) 1 Gigabit switch should suffice. I'd be more than happy to help you if you want. You may email me if you'd like the help.

[Will]

I should have given more facts... The computer gets its internet from Wifi. There's a home router and a home network, but the computer (in the basement) is physically a long way away from the router (upstairs).

It seemed kind of complicated to get CDU#1 to hook up to the home network just to connect it up to the PC, so I plugged it in with a cable. I just don't have any more ports to plug anything else into the computer.

Maybe Option 1 is going with a physical connection like I described (computer and two CDUs into a physical switch with cables).

Maybe Option 2 is to plug both CDUs into a switch that picks up Wifi, and then connect everything on the home network?

Option 1 seemed more straightforward. I'll emphasize again that I'm new at this.

Thanks again.

[voipmeister]

Not a problem

So if I understand correctly:
- the PC gets its internet feed over wifi
- CDU #1 is connected to the PC's network interface directly with a cable, no other equipment involved
- you wish to add another CDU, but are out of ports

If this is the case, adding a switch and connecting all the devices to it should work. You would need a cable per device (so 3 in total for this setup). The only issue I see has to do with addressing: all devices need an IP address in the same range and they should be static. But you have solved this in the past since you already connected the PC and CDU #1.

It can also be the case that you didn't configure any static IP addresses for the PC and CDU #1 on the cabled link; there is a fallback method that autoconfigures network interfaces and this is called APIPA (which stands for Automatic Private IP Addressing). This is the case if the IP addresses of the PC and CDU #1 start with 169.254 (the first 2 numbers). If you want to verify this, but don't know how, just let me know.

In any case, you could go ahead and buy a switch and an extra cable, and connect the PC and CDU #1 to the switch with their own respective cables. Your setup should continue to work.

The 5-port Netgear 1 Gb switch or Ubiquiti Switch Flex Mini are excellent candidates for what you're trying to achieve and are cost effective I think.

[Will]

You've given me some confidence... Here is my next vital question, to see if this has a chance of working.

My GPU has 4 outputs (one HDMI, three DisplayPort), and I have four monitors attached: three identical 3824x2160 monitors, and the CDU#1 which is 800x600. Everything works great and I get excellent performance out of my 3-year-old PC, running both PSX and MSFS at the same time on Windows 10.

The motherboard also has integrated graphics, with two ports: one HDMI and one DisplayPort. Neither are currently used.

Can I plug CDU#2 into the integrated (unused) HDMI port on the motherboard, and run 4 monitors from the GPU and one from the integrated port, for a total of five monitors? I read somewhere that this needs a change in the BIOS, but I'm not sure if it's even possible. Also, a few online sources say having some displays on the GPU and some on the CPU can cause serious performance issues.

Thanks again.

[voipmeister]

You've given me some confidence... Here is my next vital question, to see if this has a chance of working.

That's good, just let me know if you have any further questions.

Can I plug CDU#2 into the integrated (unused) HDMI port on the motherboard, and run 4 monitors from the GPU and one from the integrated port, for a total of five monitors? I read somewhere that this needs a change in the BIOS, but I'm not sure if it's even possible. Also, a few online sources say having some displays on the GPU and some on the CPU can cause serious performance issues.

I think that would depend on the CPU that you're using with the motherboard. Some CPUs have integrated GPUs, while others have not. If you know the type of CPU, you can verify whether it has an integrated CPU. A program like Speccy (https://www.ccleaner.com/speccy) might help if you don't know the exact type.

[asboyd]

That's good, just let me know if you have any further questions.

I think that would depend on the CPU that you're using with the motherboard. Some CPUs have integrated GPUs, while others have not. If you know the type of CPU, you can verify whether it has an integrated CPU. A program like Speccy (https://www.ccleaner.com/speccy) might help if you don't know the exact type.

I have systems with integrated HDMI Video ports which are disabled when you add a graphics card with HDMI outputs.

Even a card with all DP's will disable the onboard HDMI. You can try plugging a standard monitor in and see if it works with another on the graphics card.
Cheers,
AlexB

[Will]

Well, Google and reddit are also leading me to believe that 4 monitors is the max with my system.

An alternative would be to use two computers networked together, or else sacrifice one of my 3824x2160 monitors to attach CDU#2. Those aren't fun ideas, so I think this isn't going to work.

Thanks for the help along the way!

[asboyd]

Will, have a look at Matrox dual head to go (DH2G) and Triple Head 2 Go (TH2G) units. I have one DH2G unit which uses one DVI port and combines two displays (my Capt and FO main screens) as one large display. The triple head to go allows 3 screens to use one port and they come in DVI, HDMI and DP formats.

Effectively you could have two TH2G DVI units, giving you six screens using only 2 ports on the graphics card.

Cheers,
AlexB

[Will]

Alex, thanks as always for your helpful tips. A quick trip to their website suggests that DH2G is no longer being produced, but TH2G continues onwards.

Just so I can understand this, let's say for simplicity's sake I only have one DP output from my GPU. I follow the instructions on the installation guide, which I just downloaded from Matrox. Now I have one line going from my computer's DP into the TH2G (DP Edition). I can then plug up to three monitors into the TH2G, giving me three monitors from my computer's single DP port. So far, so good?

Both CDUs would be HDMI, so I would need two DP-to-HDMI adapters. Those are less than $10, so it looks like a practical solution.

Do you see anything wrong with my thought process here?

Question: What does it look like on Windows 10 > Settings > System > Display? Does each monitor show up for configuration exactly as it would if it were plugged in directly to a GPU port? (I can't picture what you mean when you say "combines two displays (my Capt and FO main screens) as one large display".)

Thanks again.

Edit: Here is my Windows Display tab now, note the tiny 800x600 monitor on the top (#4):

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Yet another option is to scavenge an old (5 years) PC from somewhere. The CDU driver is basically a zero CPU consumer. You can install a full PSX client on the PC and it won't even blink. There are cheap brick-only PCs available (search for "mini PC"). I don't recommend a Raspberry Pi for you as it is not running an OS you know, but these little gems are certainly also suitable.

Hoppie

[Will]

Jeroen, I have a PC sitting in the basement that would work well for this. I do need to run MSFS and PSX on the same computer, because I want to put them on the same monitor, like this: https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php/topic,7219.msg77638.html#msg77638

But I see what you're saying.

PC#1, the current PC, would have MSFS and PSX server, and would run two of the three 3824x2160 (DP) monitors. It would also run Navigraph, RealTraffic, Spad.Next, and of course the bridging apps that link PSX to MSFS.

PC#2, the older PC, would have the PSX client and would run the two 800x600 (HDMI) monitors for the CDUs plus the third 3824x2160 (DP) monitor, so I could watch it boot and do all the command line* stuff.

That seems pretty doable, but brings the focuses of this topic back to networking.

Both computers could attach to the home network via WiFi, and presumably both would still have an unused Ethernet port. So please let me know if this sounds reasonable:

Connect PC#1 and PC#2 to a hardware switch via Ethernet cables. Then connect CDU#1 and CDU#2 to the switch as well, also via cables. This part I think I could do. But what comes next?

I'm intimidated by the prospect of getting all four devices to talk to each other, but if you guys tell me it's pretty doable, then maybe this really is the next step for my home setup. With your continued availability and generosity when it comes to fielding questions, of course...

Thanks again everyone.


*) "Command line" is meant metaphorically here. :-)

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Both PCs could also connect to WiFi, with no switch in the system, and the CDUs connected by individual cables to PC #1 and PC #2. The PCs would see each other through the WiFi. This has as disadvantage that you now need to set your WiFi connection on PC #1 to always have the same IP address, to assure PC #2 can find it.

The switch solution is a bit more robust.

PC #1 connects to WiFi as before.
PC #2 has no internet, unless you also connect it to WiFi, which is not any problem.
Both PC #1 and #2 connect to the switch. Set the Ethernet of PC #1 to, for example, 192.168.2.1 and 192.168.2.2.
CDU #1 and #2 both connect to the switch. Set their Ethernets to, for example, 192.168.2.3 and 192.168.2.4.

All netmasks go to 255.255.255.0. This means that your Ethernet network (everything connected to the switch) assumes that every neighbour is 192.168.2.* and only the last number is different. Don't use 0 or 255 as the last number.
Default Gateway and DNS can be left undefined. The CDUs are not assumed to go to the internet (using a PC as router).

This assumes your WiFi is *NOT* 192.168.2.*.  Most likely it is 192.168.1.* or 10.* * *.

You should now be able to ping from each PC to each other PC.

Once this works, point PSX on PC #2 as client to PC #1 as server, using 192.168.2.1 to point the client at.

It's not difficult but you may need to hunt a bit on Windows for the "Ethernet adapter settings". The more modern the Windows, the more difficult this becomes...


Hoppie

[Will]

Thanks. It occurs to me that if I get a switch and another Ethernet cable, then I already have all the hardware I need to test this. If both PSX instances can find each other, and CDU#1 works, then I have confirmation (I believe) that adding CDU#2 will also work.

I don't mind buying a cable and not putting it to use right away, but I'd hate to shell out the cash for another CDU and not be able to get it working.

Now all I need is some time...

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

You can get that switch (always handy) and the cable, connect PC#2 and see whether its PSX syncs up, and then disconnect CDU#1 from PC#1 and reconnect it to PC#2. This may need a tiny IP address change on CDU#1 or you swap the IP addresses of PC#1 and PC#2. This should give you a working CDU on PC#2 which proves out everything before you order CDU#2.

Hoppie

[asboyd]

Will,
On my MIP computer I have a DH2G which gives me the main screens for the Capt and FO sides. I then have a DP-DVI convertor which allows me t control the PC via a KVM. SO I don't need to run the MIP screens when doing windows updates, etc.

Originally I had a GTX770 card which ran the MIP via the DH2G and the CDUs using 2 ports with VGA adapters. (The GTX770 only has 3 ports.)

So to answer your question, yes your assumption is correct.
Be warned about the cheap DP to HDMI adapters though, some do tend to die quicker than others. Buy from local sources were you can get a replacement if it dies... Some ebay Items I bought lasted until the first time the USB power supply switched off/on... Not what you want.

Cheers,
AlexB