Select FMC HOLD page, then ND PLAN mode: Hold fix is centered automatically?

[Hardy Heinlin]

Good evening.

Mariano just showed me a feature on the 767.

ND is in MAP mode.
FMC HOLD page is selected, referring to a hold fix which is not active yet (several legs away).
Pilot selects the PLAN mode.
PLAN screen automatically shows that hold fix in the center of the PLAN display.
Pilot selects the LEGS page.
<CTR> is shown at the active waypoint (not at that hold fix).
After 3 seconds, the PLAN screen shows the active waypoint in the center of the PLAN display.

In short words: When PLAN is selected while the HOLD page is shown, PLAN automatically shows that hold fix instead of the active waypoint. Normally, when PLAN is selected, the step-to <CTR> is first set at the active waypoint.

Does anybody know if the 744 systems behave the same? I think it's not documented.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[Hardy Heinlin]

I forgot to ask ...

Perhaps the selection of the HOLD page always puts this page's hold fix on the PLAN center, even while the PLAN mode is already displayed?

For example:

PLAN mode is shown and PLAN center shows active waypoint AAAAA.
LEGS page is shown with <CTR> on active waypoint AAAAA.
Pilot selects HOLD page 1/3 which shows hold fix EEEEE.
Effect: PLAN mode center displays EEEEE.
Pilot selects LEGS page which still has <CTR> on active waypoint AAAAA.
Effect: After 3 seconds PLAN mode center displays AAAAA.
Pilot selects HOLD page 1/3 which shows hold fix EEEEE.
Effect: PLAN mode center displays EEEEE.
Pilot selects HOLD page 2/3 which shows hold fix FFFFF.
Effect: PLAN mode center displays FFFFF.
Pilot selects HOLD page 3/3 which shows hold fix GGGGG.
Effect: PLAN mode center displays GGGGG.

Just a theory.


|-|ardy

[boeing747430]

Hi Hardy!

Weather permitting, I'll have a -400 rotation next week. I'll try to enlighten us.

Best,
Kim.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Thank you, Kim.

I just learned that it doesn't matter whether the PLAN mode is selected already or thereafter -- at least on the 767.

The PLAN mode shows the following in the map center:

When LEGS page selected: The waypoint which has the <CTR> label.
When HOLD page selected: The hold fix of the first hold in the route, even when multiple HOLD pages exist and page 2 or higher is selected. When the pilot selects a page other than the HOLD page *, the PLAN mode will keep the hold fix centered for 3 seconds.


|-|ardy


* Or specifically the LEGS page? E.g. will the PLAN mode keep the hold fix when a PROGRESS or FIX INFO page etc. is selected?

[Mariano]

Hardy,

Regarding your last question, the answer is yes (767). Video attached.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AsRrLL6HC4naiucvDgqjSwVFiDUshw

Best regards,

Mariano

[Hardy Heinlin]

Thanks! :-)

[boeing747430]

Soooo...:
Basically the same on 744 as on 767, but there is no 3 second delay. The map switches immediately with the normal delay it shows when switching modes, so less than half a second. I even made a video, in case you're interested. Just don't know how to post it here...

Best,
Kim.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Thank you, Kim. I'll try to implement it in the next PSX update.

You can post links to videos. You can't upload them.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[boeing747430]

744 FMS hold

[Mariano]

The three-second delay might be due to the difference in processing power between an older Pegasus and a newer NG.

Thanks, Kim.

Best regards,

Mariano

[boeing747430]

Hey Mariano!

You could be right.
I wasn't aware though, that 767s which received display upgrades are still using older FMS-software. Is there no newer software available? Doesn't make sense to me to invest in the new hardware but not in software.
At my company, as you can see, it's old hardware and new software on 744.

BTW, she still flies so much nicer than -8i. Always looking forward to flying the old girl once more.😉

Best, Kim.

[Mariano]

Kim,

The Pegasus software package is as good as you can get in a 767. There are two versions, our company having a mix of both, I am told.

We still have a few (three, I believe) non-GPS, PIP airplanes awaiting LDS (Large Display System) conversion. Once they come out, they do so with the latest Pegasus software and LCD MCDUs, so they go from oldest to newest in the fleet in about three weeks. The ones that go into conversion with older Pegasus and CRT MCDUs, keep them.

I too love the feeling of older CRTs, and electromechanical MCP and standby instruments. The 787 display upgrade is very nice, of course, but I guess I am from that older generation.

We lost our 767-200 fleet about two years ago. The new operator, installed LDS on them, with one even having touchscreen MCDUs. There is a photo of the flight deck of this rare specimen floating around out there. One of the original, early/mid eighties 762-200s, JT9 engines, with 787 displays and touchscreen MCDUs. Imagine that.

Best regards,

Mariano

[boeing747430]

Nice and interesting read, Mariano! Thanks!

Sounds like a lot of different cockpit configurations to me. Not so nice, me thinks.

In the late 90s I flew as an FO at Virgin Express. All 737-300 and -400s. Everyone of the 15-20, or so, planes had a slightly different config, sometimes with features and switches which were not properly documented. I was not aware before this, that one was allowed to fly these different thingies with one rating.

When I was a captain on 320s there were smaller differences, but someone counted the discrete cockpit configurations to be in excess of 15. Sometimes, you had to fly for example a 320-200 NEO with PW engines for the first two sectors, then a 321-100 with IAE engines for another two, just to finish off with a CEO 319-200 for the last sector - all in one day.

This is crazy stuff and not really in the interest of safety.

Happy landings...

[Mariano]

I know the feeling well.

As my carrier mainly buys and converts airplanes from many airlines, the differences can be quite remarkable, the 767 fleet having the most variety.

As all our -8Fs and most 777Fs come from the factory, and older 744s begin to be retired, those two fleets are slowly becoming more standardized.

It's not uncommon for me to start a (domestic) day on a GE, LDS ex-KLM airplane, and finish on a PW, classic display (CFD being an official acronym now) ex-SAS airplane with all their varying original customer options, differently upgraded by later operators over many years. Keeps you sharp, but it comes at a price, as you pointed out.

Best regards,

Mariano

[Hardy Heinlin]

The feature discussed above is now available in PSX update 10.173:

https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php/topic,4191.0.html


Regards,

|-|ardy