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Layout Resource for PSX & Scenery Generator viewed on the same monitor

Started by cavaricooper, Sat, 11 Mar 2023 19:42

Hardy Heinlin

Those videos are nice for the look-down angle reference. But they differ in terms of wide-angle distortion as every camera uses a different focal length. The last shot with the red MCP has a focal length that is, in my opinion, very similar to that of the human eye.

Hardy Heinlin

I think I shouldn't use the term "focal length" here. Please disregard this word in my last comments. It's actually just about the size of the monitor and about the zoom factor. The ratio of the far end runway width and near end width (pyramid versus rectangle), is just a matter of the pilot's distance to the runway: When the runway is 3000 m long, and the pilot is 3000 m from the threshold, the threshold width is clearly greater than the far end width (as the threshold is in the middle between far end and pilot; it's a 50/50 ratio). It's just that distance ratio that determines the trapezoid shape; it's not the focal length. If the runway is a million miles from the pilot, and the pilot looks through a super telescope, the far end width and the threshold width are almost equal.

But there's another special distortion by the projection method of MSFS; it displays all straight lines in the landscape as straight lines, which is a projection that the human eye and brain cannot generate. When you, from a bird's perspective, at 10,000 ft, look down to a city that has a perpendicular street system, e.g. New York, MSFS will probably display all street intersections at a 90° angle. In real life, the line projection would get curved. Only the crossing in the middle of the projection would be straight and at a 90° angle. (I don't have MSFS. Maybe someone can check that.)



Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

My reasoning in putting up these videos was that no matter the focal length of the camera, the relationship between the visible window frame and the outside remains identical. A fish eye lens would show the same as a telelens if you cut out just the window frame and everything visible through it. The lens cannot change its capture angle and all associated distortions only once it is past the windshield.

Of course you may need to push and pull the window frame until it matches reality if you have an extreme fish eye lens inside the cockpit, but doing so would co-distort the outside view through the windshield, and the result would be identical between fish eye and telelenses.

Unless my brain fools me again. Which is entirely possible.

If I am correct, then adding the scenery generator's virtual cockpit frame to the projection would immediately reveal how bad it is compared to what you want. You should be seeing a VC windshield frame that overlaps the PSX windshield frame, if PSX would be able to be semi-transparent.


Hoppie

Hardy Heinlin

I see what you mean; we may disregard the "relationship between the visible window frame and the outside".

(Just to be precise: I would indeed disregard the tiny distortion difference between, say, a 25 mm and 50 mm focal length. But the distortions are not 100 % identical. The window frame also gets distorted along with everything inside that frame. Just the image center, which is an infinitely small point, is undistorted. There may be even differences between lenses of the same focal length but of different production types. Some will keep the upper and lower window edges parallel; some others will bend them a bit. -- Anyway, I think we can disregard these tiny differences.)


|-|ardy

cavaricooper

Ok-

Having absorbed and processed all the comments here (many thanks) I have arrived at a final layout.  This again, is for a 4K TV (in my case 65", about 1M from my eyes) running the scenery generator (in my case MSFS) and PSX (in my case, via PSX.NET).  I post this hopefully, as a reference for others to establish a starting point, and then tailor it to their particular tastes.  I benefited greatly from Yoshi's inspirational posting, and I hope this pays that forward to someone else.

[Aerowinx Precision Simulator - Layouts]
[Version 10.166]

[Layout 1]
title=Captain Flying
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.31890965
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.2868453
xScrollUprL=-539.6389
yScrollUprL=-526.01385
zoomUpperR=0.618452
xScrollUprR=1864.7931
yScrollUprR=568.5662
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3767.3457
yScrollLwrL=-132.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=2934.0374
yScrollLwrR=-132.49649

[Layout 2]
title=EICAS
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.99952966
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.5072593
xScrollUprL=2639.8684
yScrollUprL=200.91089
zoomUpperR=0.49460357
xScrollUprR=938.05493
yScrollUprR=189.52141
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 3]
title=CDUs
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.7488329
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.76883584
xScrollUprL=1831.8687
yScrollUprL=-377.5559
zoomUpperR=0.7370404
xScrollUprR=254.55528
yScrollUprR=-1984.3707
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 4]
title=Captain Flying
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.32932088
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.65409714
xScrollUprL=1917.1053
yScrollUprL=-441.88174
zoomUpperR=0.618452
xScrollUprR=1897.5243
yScrollUprR=571.5662
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3819.3457
yScrollLwrL=-132.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=2986.0374
yScrollLwrR=-132.49649

[Layout 5]
title=Overhead 1
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.99952763
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.42880377
xScrollUprL=2500.5593
yScrollUprL=1670.5261
zoomUpperR=0.7735959
xScrollUprR=460.24637
yScrollUprR=484.41443
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3481.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=2648.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 6]
title=Pedestal
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.7067987
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.66731167
xScrollUprL=1829.2905
yScrollUprL=-1001.4296
zoomUpperR=0.5674813
xScrollUprR=498.88287
yScrollUprR=-1569.2622
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3481.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=2648.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 7]
title=CBs
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.524479
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.39071852
xScrollUprL=-355.3941
yScrollUprL=-901.3791
zoomUpperR=0.38658673
xScrollUprR=745.46576
yScrollUprR=2492.7124
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 8]
title=Overhead 2
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.99952966
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.42275715
xScrollUprL=2526.2844
yScrollUprL=2350.0708
zoomUpperR=0.37053594
xScrollUprR=-44.42088
yScrollUprR=1657.9934
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 9]
title=OVERVIEW
screenX=180
screenY=1289
screenW=3472
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.99952966
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.12165999
xScrollUprL=2054.6646
yScrollUprL=227.95547
zoomUpperR=0.05
xScrollUprR=443.7877
yScrollUprR=480.89703
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[End of file]





[VERSION]
major=1
minor=0
[CAMERADEFINITION.0]
Title="1"
Guid="{504D2D57-1E5C-4CE6-9121-4DD31EEA6431}"
UITitle="1"
Description=""
Origin="Virtual Cockpit"
Track="None"
TargetCategory="None"
ClipMode="Normal"
SnapPbhAdjust="None"
PanPbhAdjust="None"
XyzAdjust=0
ShowAxis="NO"
AllowZoom=1
InitialZoom=1
SmoothZoomTime=5
BoundingBoxRadius=0.1
ShowWeather=0
CycleHidden=0
CycleHideRadius=0
ShowPanel=0
MomentumEffect=0
ShowLensFlare=0
PanPbhReturn=0
SnapPbhReturn=1
InstancedBased=0
NoSortTitle=0
Transition=0
Category="Cockpit"
SubCategory="Custom"
SubCategoryItem="None"
InitialXyz= -0, -0.000002, -0.000016
InitialPbh= -5.354389, -0.011478, 0.081778
[CAMERADEFINITION.1]
Title="3"
Guid="{C9809E3F-C0D6-42E9-B88B-D02F9F42C2CF}"
UITitle="3"
Description=""
Origin="Virtual Cockpit"
Track="None"
TargetCategory="None"
ClipMode="Normal"
SnapPbhAdjust="None"
PanPbhAdjust="None"
XyzAdjust=0
ShowAxis="NO"
AllowZoom=1
InitialZoom=0.645595
SmoothZoomTime=5
BoundingBoxRadius=0.1
ShowWeather=0
CycleHidden=0
CycleHideRadius=0
ShowPanel=0
MomentumEffect=0
ShowLensFlare=0
PanPbhReturn=0
SnapPbhReturn=1
InstancedBased=0
NoSortTitle=0
Transition=0
Category="Cockpit"
SubCategory="Custom"
SubCategoryItem="None"
InitialXyz= -0, -0.000002, -0.000016
InitialPbh= 169.643616, -176.320114, -89.32045
[CAMERADEFINITION.2]
Title="4"
Guid="{ADF1F5D0-CFB0-4243-9AA9-D877A61B101D}"
UITitle="4"
Description=""
Origin="Virtual Cockpit"
Track="None"
TargetCategory="None"
ClipMode="Normal"
SnapPbhAdjust="None"
PanPbhAdjust="None"
XyzAdjust=0
ShowAxis="NO"
AllowZoom=1
InitialZoom=0.645594
SmoothZoomTime=5
BoundingBoxRadius=0.1
ShowWeather=0
CycleHidden=0
CycleHideRadius=0
ShowPanel=0
MomentumEffect=0
ShowLensFlare=0
PanPbhReturn=0
SnapPbhReturn=1
InstancedBased=0
NoSortTitle=0
Transition=0
Category="Cockpit"
SubCategory="Custom"
SubCategoryItem="None"
InitialXyz= -0.000001, -0.000005, -0.000031
InitialPbh= 172.602219, 175.722916, 89.289482

The 1:1 zoom has really helped my landings (again, you were correct Hardy)... in fact I believe even the "CC" would approve of this ;)


Best- C

PS- I cannot emphasize enough, what a transforming experience PSX.NET has been for me.  I remain obliged to Hardy above all, then Gary, Mark et al, Hoppie and to Yoshi for patience and the lovely Cargolux livery.
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

funkyhut

Greetings Carl,
Please no rush on this and yes, too many questions!
I'm considering moving to a 65" 4K monitor (SAMSUNG TV Crystal UHD 4K (2023) Smart TV 65 นิ้ว CU7000 Series รุ่น UA65CU7000KXXT) and wonder if this last post is where you are with this?
Also, the second block of code. Is that a file for MSFS and if so, where does it go and what is it doing?
Are you using anything to keep PSX on top? allwaysontop.ahk.
I see that Gary is about to drop a new WASM model and wonder how this will affect your setup?
Many Thanks
Chris.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

cavaricooper

Chris-

I would love to go OLED but at the moment it is a Sony XBR2 5" 4K TV.
The second block is the MSFS Camera.cfg in C:\Users\XXXXX\AppData\Local\Packages\Microsoft.Fl ightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\LocalCache\SimObjects\ Airplanes.... your location is dependent on your install path.
I just put PSX on top... no program.
Gary's stuff is the bees knees, and as soon as I have a moment, I plan on exulting in evolution... but life has kept me busy atm, hence the late reply.  Sorry!

HTH- C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

funkyhut

Carl,
Effusive thanks to Gary and team again. The V10 release really is incredible.
Thank you too for your amazing guidance.
Yesterday I bagged a 65" 4k ULED (Hisense) which was on sale at just under half price locally.
Installed your layout and wow, thank you. A wonderful place to start to refine and explore.
And thanks for the camera config too.
My "old" 32" 3440 x 1440 curved now has all the add on stuff, simplifying the old 3 screen setup.
Take Care,
Chris.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

cavaricooper

Chris-

Glad to hear it helps as a starting point. I forgot to add that I have an iPad at my right knee for the CDU and so I don't show it to the left, being ergonomically inaccurate. I just needed to fill the left side, hence the CB panel.

Strangely, I have flown with PSX covering the entire bottom portion, and keep going back to the blank space on the sides. My Simpleton's brain "thinks" it gives better flare and turn cues... YMMV.

Anyhow, enjoy the journey. Gary, Mark, Yoshi et al have indeed created something wonderful here!

Best- C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

funkyhut

Hi Carl,
Back in the days of WidePSX, I used to have PSX along the bottom. Or I had it full screen and then cut to the MSFS view as soon as I went manual on the approach.
I think you're comment on perspective in the flare is precisely right. I wonder IRL if pilots use that periferal view to judge anything. In my days in a 172 it was essential. And with the huge monitor,the PFD and ND are perfectly readable while taking up little space.
I noticed in one of his posts, that Bode actually goes to just a forward view of MSFS at 200ft, losing PSX entirely.
But I still feel that a window view with window and glare shield in WASM would be a really great bonus.
Cheers.
Edit after Carl's post below: A bottle of Scotch from me too Mark.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

cavaricooper

Quote from: funkyhut on Tue,  8 Aug 2023 14:07Hi Carl, I still feel that a window view with window and glare shield in WASM would be a really great bonus.
Cheers.

I will gladly buy Mark another bottle of Scotch if that happens!

C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

funkyhut

https://youtu.be/OoPHaSkrp-k
I built this from Carl's layout file above and have not changed the overall frame size. Carl has the CDU on an iPad but I need them on screen. This is a start to develop the idea.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

Bluestar

Chris,

Nice job of the setup and video.  Is the 7.25" ND you are using the same size as the real B744 ND?
Grace and Peace,

Bode

cavaricooper

Very nice Chris... BZ! Glad it's working for you. Keep fiddling until you're self actualized ;). This is my current setup- on the same monitor with a couple of bits and bobs... nothing like the real sims, but it does the job for me. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zt9hdGNdVOELvwADTOofp9Gr7_kgV73i/view?usp=sharing

C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

cavaricooper

Quote from: Bluestar on Wed,  9 Aug 2023 22:25Chris,

Nice job of the setup and video.  Is the 7.25" ND you are using the same size as the real B744 ND?

Bode- I started at 8" x 8" and tweaked a bit... that's RL (I think).

C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Bluestar

Quote from: cavaricooper on Thu, 10 Aug 2023 00:54Very nice Chris... BZ! Glad it's working for you. Keep fiddling until you're self actualized ;). This is my current setup- on the same monitor with a couple of bits and bobs... nothing like the real sims, but it does the job for me. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zt9hdGNdVOELvwADTOofp9Gr7_kgV73i/view?usp=sharing

C

Carl,

I like what you are doing with your sim.  It looks really good in your video.  😎
Grace and Peace,

Bode

funkyhut

Carl,
That looks wonderful and just about as real as you can get while retaining the fidelity of PSX. Thanks for sharing.
Bode,
I think Carl covered the PFD size. At 7.25" with everything else scaled, everything is really clear and simple to read.

Next I need to understand manipulating MSFS views and moving the drone camera smoothly.
Cheers

Chris.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

cavaricooper

Quote from: Bluestar on Thu, 10 Aug 2023 04:07Carl,

I like what you are doing with your sim.  It looks really good in your video.  😎


Quote from: funkyhut on Thu, 10 Aug 2023 04:50Carl,
That looks wonderful and just about as real as you can get while retaining the fidelity of PSX. Thanks for sharing.
Bode,
I think Carl covered the PFD size. At 7.25" with everything else scaled, everything is really clear and simple to read.

Next I need to understand manipulating MSFS views and moving the drone camera smoothly.
Cheers

Chris.

Thanks Gents! It's a long way from what our more august members have created, but it gets the job done for me. I fly a few different aircraft and this kit serves them all. Please share here if something you arrive at would help the collective (single monitor users).

My next step is awaiting a 3d framework for the windows. Unfortunately the chap working on a full 3D VC with all the contents driven by PSX has chosen XPL. Hopefully it might be ported over to MSFS... fingers x'ed!
Ta- C


Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

funkyhut

Greetings Carl,
Is this where I put your cameras.cfg to replace the original in the WASM v10 download?
E:\MSFS 2020\Community\PSX.NET.MSFS.WASM_V10\SimObjects\Airplanes\PSX.NET.MSFS.WASM
Many Thanks.
Chris.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

cavaricooper

Quote from: funkyhut on Sat, 12 Aug 2023 12:17Greetings Carl,
Is this where I put your cameras.cfg to replace the original in the WASM v10 download?
E:\MSFS 2020\Community\PSX.NET.MSFS.WASM_V10\SimObjects\Airplanes\PSX.NET.MSFS.WASM
Many Thanks.
Chris.

Chris- no.

Mine resides in C:\Users\XXXXX\AppData\Local\Packages\Microsoft.Fl ightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\LocalCache\SimObjects\ Airplanes\PSX.NET.MSFS.WASM

HTH- C

PS- be VERY sure MSFS is still giving you Zoom=1.0... I haven't had success keeping that with the new a/c and had to redo the file.... you want that or very close to Zoom=1.0 for best results.
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA