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Layout Resource for PSX & Scenery Generator viewed on the same monitor

Started by cavaricooper, Sat, 11 Mar 2023 19:42

cavaricooper

I am working on a layout for both PSX and MSFS running on the same machine and screen.  I am attaching it here as a starting point, but it's far from perfect.  If others are running similar setups (the actual Scenery Generator choice is unimportant) and don't mind sharing, I'd be obliged. Please create a post- you are welcome to use the Dropbox storage link to share your layout(s).

Ta- C

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ik6ub9xe1j0xcae/PSXNET.9pack?dl=0
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Takayoshi Sasano

Hi!

This is mine, work in progress.

Cheers

Yoshi

[Aerowinx Precision Simulator - Layouts]
[Version 10.137]

[Layout 1]
title=CPT Flying
screenX=1
screenY=810
screenW=2560
screenH=636
dividerUpperX=0.32443988
dividerLowerX=0.8125
dividerLeftY=0.998645
dividerRightY=0.998645
zoomUpperL=0.7297196
xScrollUprL=1138.1511
yScrollUprL=-415.45657
zoomUpperR=0.43226644
xScrollUprR=1305.7076
yScrollUprR=398.06143
zoomLowerL=0.43504238
xScrollLwrL=748.8297
yScrollLwrL=32.237324
zoomLowerR=0.66760796
xScrollLwrR=1018.54346
yScrollLwrR=7.641175

[Layout 2]
title=Start
screenX=1
screenY=0
screenW=2560
screenH=1440
dividerUpperX=0.78811663
dividerLowerX=0.78811663
dividerLeftY=0.57569444
dividerRightY=0.81971925
zoomUpperL=0.50733423
xScrollUprL=1064.7124
yScrollUprL=1805.3638
zoomUpperR=0.6732844
xScrollUprR=270.93634
yScrollUprR=279.61926
zoomLowerL=0.57699525
xScrollLwrL=1077.8479
yScrollLwrL=-838.0907
zoomLowerR=0.8674271
xScrollLwrR=-581.72266
yScrollLwrR=796.754

[Layout 3]
title=FO Flying
screenX=1
screenY=810
screenW=2560
screenH=636
dividerUpperX=0.71623677
dividerLowerX=0.8125
dividerLeftY=0.998645
dividerRightY=0.998645
zoomUpperL=0.43641436
xScrollUprL=411.4018
yScrollUprL=402.70596
zoomUpperR=0.73151135
xScrollUprR=-304.94678
yScrollUprR=-417.20898
zoomLowerL=0.43504238
xScrollLwrL=748.8297
yScrollLwrL=32.237324
zoomLowerR=0.66760796
xScrollLwrR=1018.54346
yScrollLwrR=7.641175

[Layout 4]
title=Center Pedestal
screenX=-8
screenY=95
screenW=2560
screenH=1350
dividerUpperX=0.19375002
dividerLowerX=0.19375002
dividerLeftY=0.3748148
dividerRightY=0.10307805
zoomUpperL=0.6172282
xScrollUprL=1483.51
yScrollUprL=264.70517
zoomUpperR=0.50273496
xScrollUprR=1190.571
yScrollUprR=456.39633
zoomLowerL=0.8500826
xScrollLwrL=855.3596
yScrollLwrL=-440.03076
zoomLowerR=0.6411707
xScrollLwrR=978.12744
yScrollLwrR=-1602.0688

[Layout 5]
title=Lower Overhead
screenX=1
screenY=0
screenW=2560
screenH=1440
dividerUpperX=0.78811663
dividerLowerX=0.78811663
dividerLeftY=0.998062
dividerRightY=0.81971925
zoomUpperL=0.57986116
xScrollUprL=996.5242
yScrollUprL=2517.6504
zoomUpperR=0.6732844
xScrollUprR=270.93634
yScrollUprR=279.61926
zoomLowerL=0.56590796
xScrollLwrL=1390.5978
yScrollLwrL=-291.16656
zoomLowerR=0.8674271
xScrollLwrR=-581.72266
yScrollLwrR=796.754

[Layout 6]
title=Upper Overhead CB
screenX=1
screenY=0
screenW=2560
screenH=1440
dividerUpperX=0.78811663
dividerLowerX=0.78811663
dividerLeftY=0.998062
dividerRightY=0.81971925
zoomUpperL=0.57986116
xScrollUprL=1006.5242
yScrollUprL=3942.6504
zoomUpperR=0.6732844
xScrollUprR=270.93634
yScrollUprR=279.61926
zoomLowerL=0.56590796
xScrollLwrL=1390.5978
yScrollLwrL=-291.16656
zoomLowerR=0.8674271
xScrollLwrR=-581.72266
yScrollLwrR=796.754

[Layout 7]
title=Upper Overhead Tests
screenX=1
screenY=0
screenW=2560
screenH=1440
dividerUpperX=0.78811663
dividerLowerX=0.78811663
dividerLeftY=0.998062
dividerRightY=0.81971925
zoomUpperL=0.57986116
xScrollUprL=1007.5242
yScrollUprL=4659.6504
zoomUpperR=0.6732844
xScrollUprR=270.93634
yScrollUprR=279.61926
zoomLowerL=0.56590796
xScrollLwrL=1390.5978
yScrollLwrL=-291.16656
zoomLowerR=0.8674271
xScrollLwrR=-581.72266
yScrollLwrR=796.754

[Layout 8]
title=CBs
screenX=1
screenY=0
screenW=2560
screenH=1440
dividerUpperX=0.99960935
dividerLowerX=0.99960935
dividerLeftY=0.998062
dividerRightY=0.81971925
zoomUpperL=0.69604236
xScrollUprL=-1383.6611
yScrollUprL=-1646.6215
zoomUpperR=0.6732844
xScrollUprR=0.22563171
yScrollUprR=279.61926
zoomLowerL=0.56590796
xScrollLwrL=1661.3085
yScrollLwrL=-291.16656
zoomLowerR=0.8674271
xScrollLwrR=-852.43335
yScrollLwrR=796.754

[Layout 9]
title=Everything
screenX=1
screenY=0
screenW=2560
screenH=1440
dividerUpperX=0.99960935
dividerLowerX=0.99960935
dividerLeftY=0.998062
dividerRightY=0.81971925
zoomUpperL=0.11431646
xScrollUprL=1263.9335
yScrollUprL=920.7228
zoomUpperR=0.6732844
xScrollUprR=0.22563171
yScrollUprR=279.61926
zoomLowerL=0.56590796
xScrollLwrL=1661.3085
yScrollLwrL=-291.16656
zoomLowerR=0.8674271
xScrollLwrR=-852.43335
yScrollLwrR=796.754

[End of file]

cavaricooper

Many thanks Yoshi!  Unfortunately I sim on a 4K monitor so it did not quite translate.  It did provide some helpful tips to customize mine, so I really appreciate you sharing the information.

Here is what I ended up with-

at 400'


at 200'


in the flare


This was achieved by using the standard PSX.NET initial view, and tilting it down slightly, and zooming in about 3 mouse wheel clicks. It provides good visibility all through the approach and flare and seems to be a good point to start from to make tiny adjustments.  Again- this is on a 65" 4K TV.

[Aerowinx Precision Simulator - Layouts]
[Version 10.166]

[Layout 1]
title=Captain Flying
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3859
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.32932088
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.65409714
xScrollUprL=1914.1053
yScrollUprL=-465.88174
zoomUpperR=0.618452
xScrollUprR=1898.5243
yScrollUprR=571.5662
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3820.3457
yScrollLwrL=-132.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=2987.0374
yScrollLwrR=-132.49649

[Layout 2]
title=EICAS
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3840
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.99952966
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.4686292
xScrollUprL=2732.3416
yScrollUprL=196.50316
zoomUpperR=0.49460357
xScrollUprR=938.05493
yScrollUprR=189.52141
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 3]
title=CDUs
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3840
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.7488329
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.8168746
xScrollUprL=2062.3604
yScrollUprL=-421.20566
zoomUpperR=0.8336881
xScrollUprR=263.92978
yScrollUprR=-2296.2551
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 4]
title=Captain Flying
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3840
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.32932088
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.65409714
xScrollUprL=1917.1053
yScrollUprL=-441.88174
zoomUpperR=0.618452
xScrollUprR=1897.5243
yScrollUprR=571.5662
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3819.3457
yScrollLwrL=-132.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=2986.0374
yScrollLwrR=-132.49649

[Layout 5]
title=Overhead 1
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3840
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.99952763
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.3961484
xScrollUprL=2687.8762
yScrollUprL=1566.3628
zoomUpperR=0.7735959
xScrollUprR=460.24637
yScrollUprR=484.41443
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3481.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=2648.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 6]
title=Pedestal
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3840
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.7067987
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.64139915
xScrollUprL=2104.1423
yScrollUprL=-964.79663
zoomUpperR=0.49442205
xScrollUprR=438.8216
yScrollUprR=-1361.272
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3481.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=2648.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 7]
title=CBs
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3840
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.524479
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.39071852
xScrollUprL=-355.3941
yScrollUprL=-901.3791
zoomUpperR=0.38658673
xScrollUprR=745.46576
yScrollUprR=2492.7124
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 8]
title=Overhead 2
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3840
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.99952966
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.42275715
xScrollUprL=2622.2844
yScrollUprL=2176.0708
zoomUpperR=0.37053594
xScrollUprR=-44.42088
yScrollUprR=1657.9934
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[Layout 9]
title=OVERVIEW
screenX=-13
screenY=1289
screenW=3840
screenH=851
dividerUpperX=0.99952966
dividerLowerX=0.31890965
dividerLeftY=0.99880385
dividerRightY=0.99880385
zoomUpperL=0.12165999
xScrollUprL=2054.6646
yScrollUprL=227.95547
zoomUpperR=0.05
xScrollUprR=443.7877
yScrollUprR=480.89703
zoomLowerL=1.2005681
xScrollLwrL=3873.3457
yScrollLwrL=-133.06311
zoomLowerR=1.2001562
xScrollLwrR=3040.0374
yScrollLwrR=-133.49649

[End of file]
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

PSX is right on glideslope in Autoland.
First shot, radio alt 520. And already three red PAPI lights.
Second shot, radio alt 270, three red.
Third shot, radio alt 20, four red and not even over the threshold.

I think your scenery alignment is too low and probably you look too much down over the nose.
The thing aims for 50 ft over the threshold (the zebra crossing). On a 744 that should be three white if I remember well (your point of view is significantly higher than on other aircraft that don't have the wheels so much lower than your eye position).

Suggestion... get that 50 ft spot right first, which should fix all other heights, and then experiment with turning the camera up so you don't look through the airplane nose.

You are now doing a http://avherald.com/h?article=503a8162&opt=0... visually... PSX is still perfectly fine.

Hoppie

cavaricooper

Hoppie-

I tried moving the viewpoint, however, in these screenshots I am using VerticalSim's KTPA and the PAPIs are not coincident with the ILS. Every time I fly it manually on PAPI, I end up high on the ILS.  This is not an unusual problem- there are many sceneries with such problems.  I will write to Andrew and hopefully he can correct this.

Ta- C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Hardy Heinlin

Carl, while you are in fine-tuning mode, you could change all nine screenX=-13 in your layout file to screenX=0 ... and replace screenW=3859 with screenW=3840 in [Layout 1]. That will perfectly center and fill your 4K monitor width.

Every pixel that is unnecessarily unused beyond the monitor edge might decrease the frame rate a tiny little bit.


|-|


P.S.: For my taste, your MSFS scenery zoom setting would be too low, i.e. the focal length too short, i.e. the far runway width is too much smaller than the near runway width, i.e. the projected runway trapezoid looks too much like a pyramid than a rectangle. It doesn't look like that in the big sims. I would zoom in. This will also lower the geometric aircraft speed in the projection during landing. You will see more runway details and the details passing by will move more slowly, so you can anticipate your work on the yoke better. -- (This will not solve this scenery's PAPI error though.)

cavaricooper

Hardy-

Will do and report back. I have been playing a bit more, and shrunk the view to leave space on either side. That mimics what I had when using a separate monitor placed in front of the big screen. Also it provides peripheral cues in the flare. Still tweaking.....

Will upload a screenie or two for further evaluation.

Ta- C

Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Takayoshi Sasano

Forgot to post a picture, this is what it looks like:


Cheers

Yoshi

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Quote from: cavaricooper on Mon, 20 Mar 2023 10:50... the PAPIs are not coincident with the ILS. Every time I fly it manually on PAPI, I end up high on the ILS.

Possibly, but the third screen shot shows the gear ploughing into the soft soil before the runway asphalt so it is not just the PAPIs that are misaligned, it may be the whole runway environment that is displaced forward in the landing direction.


Hoppie


Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

#10
It is not really pilot view, but the camera peeks almost over the glareshield so its viewpoint is very close to what a pilot would see. The idea is that you should be able to see just the top surface of the glareshield if you are positioned correctly. PSX, being 2D, cannot change this for you but I trust Hardy has worked on this. So what remains is to tune the scenery view to that same angle, zoom, and of course height and displacement. Maybe it works to peek at the PSX display of the runway environment during pause and then shift/pitch/zoom the scenery to match? All barring scenery misalignment in the design, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GSDWjVPlqc

https://skybrary.aero/sites/default/files/bookshelf/4247.pdf

Do any of the real drivers have rules of thumb to share, to guesstimate your position over the threshold?


Hoppie

Hardy Heinlin

Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Mon, 20 Mar 2023 21:5520 ft RA, baro alt 0 ft.

... refers to ...

Quotethe third screen shot shows the gear ploughing into the soft soil before the runway asphalt

... which seems to refer to the baro alt (inaccurate QNH setting).

It's still 20 ft AGL.

Hardy Heinlin

Quote from: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 20 Mar 2023 22:05PSX, being 2D, cannot change this for you but I trust Hardy has worked on this.

Scenery generator add-ons use the pilot eye position (flight deck camera) from the boost server of PSX. So there's normally no need to adjust the height and displacement again in the scenery itself. Just angle and zoom need to be adjusted.

Bluestar

Quote from: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 20 Mar 2023 22:05Do any of the real drivers have rules of thumb to share, to guesstimate your position over the threshold?


Hoppie


I have two good friends that flew B747s for 30 years and they told me they always flew manual ILS approaches a half dot high and 2 to 3 whites on the VASI.  They always told me that "landing short will get you fired." 
Grace and Peace,

Bode

Bluestar

I set my view in P3d by parking in front of a building and raising/lowering the pilot's view to where it was even with where I felt the pilot's view would be looking out the window (level).  I then turned the aircraft sideways and moved the pilot's side view forward/aft until  it was positioned correctly looking out the side pilot's window.   
Grace and Peace,

Bode

cavaricooper

Ok- this is where I am TODAY. As mentioned, I made the PSX display smaller, to allow for rectangles of MSFS on either side.  Strange, but while I don't really "see" what's there- I get a glimpse out of the corners of my eye, and it feels better in the flare (yes, I'm seeing a psychiatrist ;) ).

I took Hardy's advice, and zoomed IN more...it may not yet be enough (Hardy?)...

380 RA


220 RA


18 RA


and finally the runway in rollout


Keep in mind- I do not have the CDU showing as it sits by my right knee on an iPad. The CBs are mostly a place filler, as I am not accomplished enough to start actually pulling them.

What is most important to me is the sight picture.  Here's where I would desperately solicit input from any of our 744 drivers- how close is this to what YOU see in the RW and what should still change?

Many thanks for the patient hand holding.  PSX.NET has me finally convinced that Scenery Generation is a permanent positive.

C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

cavaricooper

At the same settings above here's a couple of daytime reference shots-

Aircraft position reference at KMIA 09


View over the nose from the same position


I'd press for a bit more nose down view angle- i.e. pavement visible a little closer. Does the height above ground look correct (it ought to- I have not altered that bit)- thoughts?

Ta- C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Hardy Heinlin

For my taste, the focal length is still way too short -- and the PFD way too small :-)

If you need those side views, you could even remove all panels around the PFD & ND and enlarge them instead.

(Actually, relevant for the discussion is not the RA but the lateral distance to the runway, and the runway length.)

The optimal focal length for a regular monitor -- if you ask me for a reference -- is shown in the simplified scenery of PSX. (Users of curved 180° screens may increase the focal length even more.)


|-|

cavaricooper

Hardy-

That PFD is 8" x 8" (65" screen).  How does this look... better... moving in the right direction?

This is at the threshold of 19R KTPA (11,002')


and here we are at 720 RA, 4.1DME on 01L (11,002')


and here we are getting high on the ILS but visually 2/2 on the PAPIs at 3.0 DME


at MINS and 2.5DME and the sight picture is familiar now...


crossing the threshold at 100RA with the markers where I'd expect to see them...


MLG touchdown with de-rotation in progress


and preparing to turn off at the end


Ta- C







Ta- C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Hardy Heinlin

Quote from: cavaricooper on Tue, 21 Mar 2023 01:00That PFD is 8" x 8" (65" screen).

Ah, that large :-) So you're sitting one arm length away in front of a 1.5 meter wide flat 4K TV? Now I understand why your magenta lines appear unsharp :-)

Here's a part of your screenshot 0.7 nm from the runway:




And this is what I would expect to see at the same 0.7 nm from the runway:




For comparison, here's a semi-transparent mix of both screenshots:




As you can see, my view tilts the angle further down and zooms more in which makes the runway shape more rectangle-like than pyramid-like. Of course, it remains a trapezoid. But just not so extreme. It's just a longer focal length. This makes your scenery pitch scale larger. So it helps in the pitch control -- not only during the flare but also when lowering the nose wheel. It's actually the focal length of the human eye. Pilots don't wear fish-eye glasses.


|-|


(In that second picture I just used your first screenshot where the runway is 1.1 nm away, and zoomed that in and cropped it. This way I got that more rectangle-like shape. In an infinite distance, the shape would be a plain rectangle. The lower the actual distance to the runway, the more pyramid-like it gets.)