Project PSXPL

[Raf]

As it wouldn't make much sense to have 2-3 competing new implementations trying to achieve exactly the same goal (and even being worked on at the same time) I also wanted to ask if you would be open for collaboration? However, I'm currently trying to completely move away from Windows and thus would prefer a platform-independent implementation that's also able to just grab the PSX stream from another machine via LAN (I thought about running PSX in a Linux Docker container on a second machine and simply using VNC to capture the screens for X-Plane). Getting the screens into XP is probably the easiest part, synchronizing both simulators and coming up with some 3D model (and textures) for the cockpit will require a lot more time and effort. As that part could be fully platform-independent and holds lots of problems that need to be solved for any connector, it would certainly be better to try combining our efforts.

There's a reason why I'm implementing a one-machine solution for this. It's speed, LATENCY and simplicity. Right now PSXP gets one frame ready (meaning, grabs it, copies the bits into a buffer, moves the buffer into RAM spot) in less than 3 milliseconds (333 times a second). It takes less than 1ms for the XPlane to grab it from the RAM and actually display it, only because the data is already in a proper format and plugin doesn't have to process anything. Position data is even faster. They will be sent independently of each other, from different threads. Position data is a priority. X-Plane must get new data for each frame it draws, otherwise it gets "choppy". Sending that via Network as packets, will add latency, and overhead processing and possible loss of packets, and that will translate into X-Plane FPSs degradation. So let's say you want to run PSX on a remote VM, the amount of layers the data will need to get through to finally end up at the X-Plane client machine is ridiculous. How much time it would take to deliver the data to XP? And I'm not taking about your network ping. I'm talking about the full loop of capturing data on the remote machine, getting it through the VM layer to the server's OS, getting it via the network adapter, routers, switches and who knows what else to the clients machine, getting it from the clients OS network adapter, process the packets into actual data, and then process that data for use by X-Plane, and THEN after all that sent it to X-Plane. And how are you going to send it to X-Plane? If you let the plugin process that the performance of X-Plane will drop to a slideshow. If you're gonna develop a program to send it to XP, well you're at square one. You just did what PSXPL is doing with 10 extra steps and 10x worse latency. And you'll still need to develop separate applications for each platform. And how are you going to handle communication the other way from X-Plane to your VM PSX?

You know that saying - "Jack of all trades, master of none"?

Two - and don't get this personally, but that's the second time I see this statement - "that getting screens to XPlane is the easy part / child's play". Yeah, getting screen data to XP isn't challenging. Getting screen data and position data FAST so it's not laggy and choppy is. PS was released some 25 years ago, X-Plane came out 27 years ago. How come in all those years no one has ever implemented this?

So anyway - thanks for the offer, I really appreciate it, but I have to decline. PSXPL is my personal project, it focuses on the features I need, and I want to have 100% control over it. I wish you good luck with your own implementation!

[b744erf]

On a good note: I have most of the cockpit elements done. See the pic below, those are just some my 3D CADs with dimensions taken directly from the real thing. It's just a matter of converting them to polys, dumping unnecessary faces and texturing.

Wow! I have to say that this is the best 744 3-D cockpit ever!!! Yes I did have the real thing as you building simulator. It looks exactly the same!

[Balt]

That's absolutely brilliant!

...and if you use RealTraffic, you'll get the same traffic in X-Plane and PSX.

Full disclosure, I'm www.flyrealtraffic.com's owner/operator.

[asboyd]

Hey Raf,
Do you have a copy of your measurements somewhere?
I wouldn't mind a copy of the seat and throttle quadrant if you have them....

Cheers,
AlexB

[Raf]

Wow! I have to say that this is the best 744 3-D cockpit ever!!! Yes I did have the real thing as you building simulator. It looks exactly the same!

Thanks! It better look exactly the same!  I've spent way too much time with calipers and rulers on those models. The plan is to make a Precision 3D model for a Precision Simulator Bigger parts are +/- 1mm, parts below 150 mm are within 0.1mm easily. Of course the PSXPL model will include only the visible faces, no interior parts and it will be way lower in poly count (still keeping the visual fidelity of course).

[Raf]

Hey Raf,
Do you have a copy of your measurements somewhere?
I wouldn't mind a copy of the seat and throttle quadrant if you have them....

Cheers,
AlexB

Alex, I have them modeled literally down to single screws. Thousands of measurements. I can't give you the CAD obviously, but if you give me a list (or better yet - a drawing) with the dimensions you are after I'm sure we can figure something out.

[asboyd]

Thanks Raf,
Away for the weekend, will respond when I am back home...

Cheers,

[Swiso]

Hello Raf,
Thank you very much for this exciting project !
Can't wait to see it released.
Any indication as to when it will be available ?

Thanks and keep up the good work.

[Raf]

Hello Raf,
Thank you very much for this exciting project !
Can't wait to see it released.
Any indication as to when it will be available ?

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Thanks, and yeah it will take a while. I don't have any dates, sorry. I will release an "Alpha" version for you guys to test hopefully early 2023 - It will include the main framework of the project, minus the 3D assets. I want to make sure it will work fine on other configurations before I invest time in making 3D models. I've got the screens transfer done, controller data transfer from X-Plane to PSX is also working fine - you'll be able to use your mapped yoke/throttle and other hardware from XPlane to control PSX. Currently I'm working on a better (smoother) position transfer from PSX into X-Plane. PSX max framerate is 73FPS. It seems high, but when X-Plane is running at 120+FPS and you have a high refresh monitor it's very noticeable. Also PSX doesn't guarantee you'll get 73 reports per second every single time. The data needs to be retrieved from the socket, parsed, and converted into actual numbers. Depending on the workload I've seen "gaps" in the data as big as 150 milliseconds. That's very noticeable and also unacceptable. I'm working on a algorithm to generate a smooth minimum 100Hz stream of data to feed to X-Plane, that's resistant to irregularities in delivery frequency from PSX.

[Antonio T.]

Hi Raf,

I wouldn´t mind paying to support this project.
Please keep us posted.

BR,

[Swiso]

Thanks, and yeah it will take a while. I don't have any dates, sorry. I will release an "Alpha" version for you guys to test hopefully early 2023 - It will include the main framework of the project, minus the 3D assets. I want to make sure it will work fine on other configurations before I invest time in making 3D models. I've got the screens transfer done, controller data transfer from X-Plane to PSX is also working fine - you'll be able to use your mapped yoke/throttle and other hardware from XPlane to control PSX. Currently I'm working on a better (smoother) position transfer from PSX into X-Plane. PSX max framerate is 73FPS. It seems high, but when X-Plane is running at 120+FPS and you have a high refresh monitor it's very noticeable. Also PSX doesn't guarantee you'll get 73 reports per second every single time. The data needs to be retrieved from the socket, parsed, and converted into actual numbers. Depending on the workload I've seen "gaps" in the data as big as 150 milliseconds. That's very noticeable and also unacceptable. I'm working on a algorithm to generate a smooth minimum 100Hz stream of data to feed to X-Plane, that's resistant to irregularities in delivery frequency from PSX.

Raf,don't worry about any release date... take the time you need and if we might help in any form or way, just let us know.
I am understanding correctly that the 3D-assets you talk about is a B744 3D cockpit for X-Plane 12 ?
Thanks !
Keep up the good work.
AA

[lentik]

Wow, the best project you can imagine. I've actually thought about something like this a few times and suggested it here in the forum - but that was years ago. Unfortunately, the time was never there to actually implement it. I am very happy that the (for me) best simulator in the world now has the potential to be used in VR mode. Something that was often called "impossible" ... could now become true. Many thanks for this work! I think many here who can't afford (or don't want) a full hardware sim have been waiting for just such a piece of software for a very long time.

[peb]

The development looks first class. Is it tied exclusively to XP 12 or will it work with XP 11?

[Raf]

I am understanding correctly that the 3D-assets you talk about is a B744 3D cockpit for X-Plane 12 ?

Yes, 3D cockpit and exterior models. Both are planned.

[Raf]

Wow, the best project you can imagine. I've actually thought about something like this a few times and suggested it here in the forum - but that was years ago. Unfortunately, the time was never there to actually implement it. I am very happy that the (for me) best simulator in the world now has the potential to be used in VR mode. Something that was often called "impossible" ... could now become true. Many thanks for this work! I think many here who can't afford (or don't want) a full hardware sim have been waiting for just such a piece of software for a very long time.

Yeah, VR is working even now with the stock 3D cockpit. PSX screens are technically "just" a texture painted on the 3D surface, so no issues there. You're going to need a beefy PC to run it in VR, as it destroys the frame-rate of XP12 even with stock planes. I'm sure LR will improve the performance in the final X-Plane 12 version.

[Raf]

The development looks first class. Is it tied exclusively to XP 12 or will it work with XP 11?

Thanks, the plugin portion of it is compiled against X-PLane SDK Release 4.0.0 beta 1 (the only one available for XP12 at the moment). Right now with the limited functions I'm using it would probably work just fine in XP11, but the future development includes tapping into the new XP12 weather system and that will make it incompatible with the previous versions.

[peb]

OK thanks

[Swiso]

Yes, 3D cockpit and exterior models. Both are planned.

Fantastic !
Thanks !!

[lentik]

Any news?

[Kockie69]

Just came across this thread. As I am using vr for fs2020 I started building the same for fs2020. As soon as I can publish more news about it I will do. Currently I have vr interaction of plenty of controls for the cockpit in place, which can be controlled from fs and psx at the same time. Fs is a full client to Psx. And Fs is still the scenery generator of course. A lot is working, but still lots to do.