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Author Topic: What Happened  (Read 481 times)

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
What Happened
« on: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 03:46 »
I was inbound to KSFO from PGUM at 00:30Z (08/05/22) on the BDEGA3 arrival.  Just as I level at 110, I start seeing lightning in the windshield and next thing I know I've got numerous failures that ultimately I was unable of overcome.  Once the failures started they just cascaded and there was literally nothing that I could do.  The weather radar did not show anything except the patchy green in areas around the aircraft (20 mile range).  The KSFO Metar did not show any weather other than high overcast.  There was a SIGMET (68W) for embedded TS about 80NM east of KSFO.  I was using the Weather Corridor and Sigmets. 

It was not a lot of fun to spend 10 hours going from PGUM and then run into something that really isn't there. 

One small issue is when I lower the gear using my throttle quadrant, sometimes the gear does not come down (known issue on my end), but the F/O states "Gear Down" even though the gear lever never moved. 

Bode

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: What Happened
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 12:28 »
What failures exactly?

For analytical discussions it's always important to save a situ file:

• At least push the REC EVENT button above the upper EICAS screen. On the real 744 this saves a snapshot of many system parameters in the maintenance system; in PSX this saves a situ file with system parameters as well as all other situational conditions.

• If you have time in that moment, make a copy of the two A and B autosave situ files that you find in your Situations folder. This way we can go back several minutes before the incident happens.

The lightning in the windshield may have been static discharge effects on the aircraft cell.
In PSX this looks like this: https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=4510.msg47954#msg47954

I guess all your four AC bus breakers were tripped by a major lightning strike (not by discharge effects). You can reset them by cycling the related switches on the overhead panel. However, in PSX, this malfunction can only happen when the aircraft is within 4 nm of the CB core; which is also the area where you will get a lot of CB turbulence. Did you notice any turbulence?

The "gear down" call is triggered when a gear-down command occurs. The call isn't a confirmation as to whether the gear lever is actually moving or not.


Regards,

|-|ardy
« Last edit: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 12:57 by Hardy Heinlin »

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
Re: What Happened
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 20:04 »
Hardy,

The aircraft was leveling at 11,000 when I got an "IAS DISAGREE" warning, followed by the stick shaker sound.  The F/O IAS was substantially lower than the Captain/Standby IAS.  The aircraft was slowing from 280 KIAS as it leveled off.  Shortly after that I had an engine failure, followed by another engine failure.  The attempted restart was unsuccessful.  The A/P had also disengaged.  Then I had a third engine failure.  After that I was pretty much along for the ride since I was descending and unable to get the engines restarted.  I don't know if there was a lightning strike.  The metar for KSFO.  This all occurred over the top of KSFO.

KSFO 042356Z 28015G24 10SM FEW007 SCT180 BKN200 24/13 A2987 RMK PK WIND 29027

There was no weather on the radar, all it was showing is what I would call ground clutter.  The nearest TS were approximately 80 NM to the east.  I was arriving from the NW. 

If this was a TS that I flew into, where did it come from?  It didn't show on the radar, it is not reflected on the KSFO Metar and the nearest TS are 80 NM east of my position.   

Bode


Hardy Heinlin

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Re: What Happened
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 20:28 »
Well, this sounds like a volcanic ash scenario. And the lightning was volcanic ash lightning then.

The volcanic ash simulation can be activated either by SIGMETs or by the checkbox on Weather > Planet.
Did you click that checkbox by chance?


|-|ardy

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
Re: What Happened
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 22:50 »
Well, this sounds like a volcanic ash scenario. And the lightning was volcanic ash lightning then.

The volcanic ash simulation can be activated either by SIGMETs or by the checkbox on Weather > Planet.
Did you click that checkbox by chance?


|-|ardy

Hardy,

The only thing I have checked in Planet is "Set Zones by Flight Track..........."

Bode

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: What Happened
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 01:55 »
Then I guess it was a SIGMET. I need a situ file of this scenario to analyse all parameters.

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
Re: What Happened
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 03:53 »
Then I guess it was a SIGMET. I need a situ file of this scenario to analyse all parameters.

I'm not sure how to recreate a situation file for a 10 hour flight that occurred two days ago?  One thing that I have noticed is the winds aloft that I've loaded into PSX are consistent with the winds aloft provided by Active Sky and shown in P3dv5.  Those same winds do not always coincide with the winds I'm seeing in the PSX Nav display. 

In the last 30 days I've put over 270 hours at real time on PSX.  There's other minor issues that I've found but I need to get the weather fixed before I ask about these items.   

Hardy, PSX is a great sim and I really want it to work for me.

Bode

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 2419
Re: What Happened
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 04:13 »
You can't go back and create a situ from past events. But the next time you're flying PSX and something happens that you don't understand, or something happens that you want to investigate, you can press the REC EVENT button to save a situation file ("situ") with the state of basically every variable at the moment including weather and FMC data. You can press REC EVENT as many times as you want, and each time it saves a separate situ.

Thus, if you're flying and all hell breaks loose, you can keep flying and trouble-shooting, but by pressing REC EVENT, you can reload that exact situation again and again to explore what's going on. Or you can upload the situ here so that people can dissect it for you and let you know what was going on.

Pressing REC EVENT doesn't terminate your flight, you can keep going. It just saves a snapshot for future use.

Will /Chicago /USA

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: What Happened
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 05:04 »
Also, if you have enough time in the moment when something unusual has occured, make a copy of the two A and B autosave situ files that you find in your Situations folder in your Microsoft Windows Explorer. By loading one of these copies we can go back several minutes before the incident happens. A and B are overwritten every 7 minutes, with an offset of 3.5 minutes between A and B. If you don't make copies within 3.5 minutes, we possibly can't go back anymore.

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
Re: What Happened
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 19:25 »
Code: [Select]
https://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/2022-08-06_18.23.49_ksfo.situ
This is the file after I have landed and cleaned up the aircraft.

I can provide the flight plan and route file if that is needed.

Bode

cavaricooper

  • Join date: Dec 2009
  • Location: KTPA
  • Posts: 1260
Re: What Happened
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 21:53 »
Bode- just checking, in re. "Just as I level at 110, I start seeing lightning in the windshield and next thing I know I've got numerous failures that ultimately I was unable of overcome", was this PSX stand alone, or were you using a scenery generator and AS as well?
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
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Re: What Happened
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 21:57 »
Bode,

I'll take a look at your situ tonight. Perhaps someone will get to it sooner than me.

Will /Chicago /USA

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: What Happened
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 02:16 »
I'm sorry, this situ is of no help. It's too late :-)

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
Re: What Happened
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 02:43 »
Bode- just checking, in re. "Just as I level at 110, I start seeing lightning in the windshield and next thing I know I've got numerous failures that ultimately I was unable of overcome", was this PSX stand alone, or were you using a scenery generator and AS as well?

I am using Active Sky with P3d.  I use the Scenery Generator and RadioTransponder modules from WidePSX to interface my scenery and vPilot with PSX.  I am not using the Aloft Weather module in WidePSX.

All my weather for PSX is generated by the PSX Corridors.   

Bode

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
Re: What Happened
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 02:49 »
I'm sorry, this situ is of no help. It's too late :-)

I apologize for taking up your time.  It will happen again and hopefully I will be smart enough to save the situation instead of the flight.  It's that pilot thingy in me.  🤣 

Bode

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
Re: What Happened
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 15:29 »
I still have the flight plan (PGUM-KSFO) and situation file when I shutdown in KSFO.  The Convective Sigmet was 68W is shown below.

WSUS33 KKCI 051655
SIGW
MKCW WST 051655
CONVECTIVE SIGMET 68W
VALID UNTIL 1855Z
MT WY AZ UT ID NV CA OR
FROM 40W MLS-20SSW TRM-30N OAK-40ESE LKV-40W MLS
AREA EMBD TS MOV FROM 24015KT. TOPS TO FL380.
OUTLOOK VALID 051855-052255
FROM 30SSW GGW-40W ELP-50S TUS-60NE INW-40ENE MZB-MOD-LKV-30SSW
GGW
WST ISSUANCES EXPD. REFER TO MOST RECENT ACUS01 KWNS FROM STORM
PREDICTION CENTER FOR SYNOPSIS AND METEOROLOGICAL DETAILS.

The Arrival METAR

KSFO 042356Z 28015G24 10SM FEW007 SCT180 BKN200 24/13 A2987 RMK PK WIND 29027

The unanswered question is how did the TS show up over KSFO with nothing on the radar.

Bode


Hardy Heinlin

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Re: What Happened
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 18:43 »
As you got clogged pitot tubes and engine restart problems, it must have been volcanic ash, not a thunderstorm.

In a thunderstorm cell, PSX will not clogg any pitot tubes, and if an engine fails at all in a CB, it will be just one engine, and just a momentary flame-out that restarts after a few seconds.

The volcanic ash was probably introduced by a SIGMET live update; maybe the SIGMET had wrong coords (typo). Or you temporarily moved your aircraft to a volcanic ash SIGMET area (e.g. Mexico) using the Instructor's map :-)


|-|ardy

Bluestar

  • Join date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 75
Re: What Happened
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 21:19 »
As you got clogged pitot tubes and engine restart problems, it must have been volcanic ash, not a thunderstorm.

In a thunderstorm cell, PSX will not clogg any pitot tubes, and if an engine fails at all in a CB, it will be just one engine, and just a momentary flame-out that restarts after a few seconds.

The volcanic ash was probably introduced by a SIGMET live update; maybe the SIGMET had wrong coords (typo). Or you temporarily moved your aircraft to a volcanic ash SIGMET area (e.g. Mexico) using the Instructor's map :-)


|-|ardy

I don't know anything about the instructors map.  I guess I need to turn the Sigmets "OFF"?

I checked the Sigmets and found volcanic activity in South American, but not in Mexico. 

I just need to move on.

Have a good evening,

Bode

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: What Happened
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 21:46 »
On the Instructor's map, when the "Met" checkbox is selected, you will see the SIGMETs on the map and you can check whether your aircraft is in a SIGMET area.

When a nonsense SIGMET is downloaded from the Internet (which can happen sometimes) and your aircraft is within that SIGMET, you can note that SIGMET identifier on the map, search the text on the SIGMET page for that identifier, and delete that SIGMET from the text. So you need not deactivate all SIGMETs.


Regards,

|-|ardy