What do our resident 777 drivers think of THIS?

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Incident: Emirates B773 at Dubai on Dec 20th 2021, overran runway on departure
http://avherald.com/h?article=4f24b2d7&opt=0

There is already a whole lot of information available, so I fear it is already known exactly what went wrong. If so... argh.

/-/

[Dirk Schepmann]

Hmm... isn't there an MCP item on the ECL? That's what happens if you call ,,checked" without actually checking it.

Very scary, they almost rushed into a residential area with full speed.

[G-CIVA]

Not a RW Pilot here...the ECL 

The 777 Preflight Checklist should take care of issues with the flight instruments & the Before Start Checklist should take care of issues like the miss setting of the MCP ALT Window but only in a "open loop' way, in that it is up to the crew to physically check the PFDs, NDs, the ISFD & the MCP for the correct indications or anomalies or errors.

In any case, so long as, & providing the CDU Preflight was complete (another ECL Checklist Item with a "closed loop' system driven confirmation) the automated V1 callout should have annunciated?

Every Boeing Pilot is trained to ignore the F/D 'looking through the FD' to an initial attitude of approximately 15 degrees at the correct rate (2-2.5 degrees per second). The rotation manoeuvre should take about 4 seconds.  The good Boeing Books clearly state that the Attitude Indicator is the primary instrument used for the Take Off Rotation Manoeuvre, not the F/D!! Once airborne its a 'Pitch for Speed' manoeuvre & the F/D commands pitch to maintain an airspeed of V2 + 15 to 25 knots (as far as the 777 is concerned) until another pitch mode is engaged.

What did they do wrong?

Apart from missing crucial ECL Items? (My assumptions).  Are automated callouts (V1) inhibited without preflight (CDU Preflight??) items being completed? The ECL will not progress to the next stage unless all items are green boxed ticked, whether Closed Loop Items via systems monitoring or Open Loop Items crew intervention via the mouse/keypad.

Was the aircraft operating in a non-normal configuration? Did they override the Closed Loop Items using the Checklist Override Function?

Did they also miscalculate their take off performance? Did they receive a performance calculation update or a late runway change during taxy & fail to update & verify correctly the CDUs were again ready as per the CDU Preflight SOP?

What made them use up all of the available runway & run into the runway end safety area?

EK 777s are fitted with RAAS & 'she' would have been busy annunciating to them as they entered the last 900m of the available runway.

The investigation (if made public) will be interesting.

[United744]

A monumental f**k up is what that was.

My guess: they flew the aircraft on the last sector, and are so blasé about how they operate, they didn't bother with preflight at all, including even checking departure items.

It appears they preflighted the FMC and punched LNAV and VNAV, and caused VNAV to capture zero altitude on the ground resulting in FD bars showing level flight instead of pitch up for takeoff.

No-one bothered to check anything, and being slaves to the automation, never spotted they were still at ground level at 280 kts.

They are lucky they are not dead.

I think it is severe enough to warrant some serious jail time for gross negligence.

[G-CIVA]

"Rumour control" on another forum in another galaxy .... fat fingers on the MCP during the take off roll .... the PF flying "caught" the incorrect MCP ALT (0000) & asked for it to be set to the initial stop ALT (4000) & either they or the PNF in setting the correct MCP ALT accidentally pressed the A/P Switch with the aircraft still on the ground.

This theory was immediately countered by an argument that all EK 777s have had the Boeing AFDS/FMS software upgraded to prevent inadvertent A/P engagement on the ground after an inadvertent A/P engagement incident on the ground in the past.

🤷

[ScudRunner]

The departure time is quoted as 02:35 which I take to be local.

If the initial statement is factually correct cars travelling along the highway immediately off the end of 30R would have had an impressive/terrifying view (not to mention the risk of any vehicles under the flightpath being blown off the road) as it passed overhead. .

There must be some compelling CCTV footage around of this one.

It reminds me of the EK A345 accident off the end of Rwy16 in Melbourne in 2009.    See here: https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2009/aair/ao-2009-012.aspx

Best
Scud.

[Dirk Schepmann]

Ironically, Emirates was once again declared as the ,,safest airline in the world" to fly with.

I think that airlines and authorities have to take care that they don't make the same mistakes as many truck or bus driver companies regarding the duty times. Crew fatigue in combination with a high degree of automation is a bad recipe.

[United744]

Ironically, Emirates was once again declared as the ,,safest airline in the world" to fly with.

I think that airlines and authorities have to take care that they don't make the same mistakes as many truck or bus driver companies regarding the duty times. Crew fatigue in combination with a high degree of automation is a bad recipe.

Well, as severe as the problem was on this flight, they didn't actually crash, and as far as I know, that is really what drives that "safest" statistic.

If someone collated all incidents not resulting in damage to the airframe, and scored them by severity, no airline would really be that safe.

Flying is still safer than getting in your car though.

[G-CIVA]

https://youtu.be/bsSKt5mN3a4

[DougSnow]

https://youtu.be/WITLR_qSPXk

Still as valid today as it was in 1997...

[andrej]

A preliminary report is out:

"The Commander stated that during cockpit preparation, she noticed that the altitude selector was set to 0000 feet and she selected it to 4,000 feet, which was also verified by the flight data recorder. The selection of 4,000 feet on the altitude selector was in accordance with the planned standard instrument departure (SID) of SENPA 2F1.

At 23:10:29 UTC, the Aircraft lifted off, and at 23:10:40 the landing gears were selected to 'up' position (retracted).

The Commander stated that after lift-off, and during climb, she followed the flight director command. However, the Aircraft rate of climb reached to a maximum of approximately 800 feet per minute. The flight crew were not able to adhere to published climb gradient of the SID due to the shallow climb.

At 23:11:01, the takeoff/go-around (TOGA) switch was selected and the flight mode annunciations (FMA) were changed to TOGA/TOGA. The flight directors indicated climb attitude on the Commander's primary flight display (PFD). A flap 15 over-speed occurred as the airspeed increased towards 250 knots. The flight crew continued to their destination and landed uneventfully."

Source: https://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublication/admin/iradmin/Lists/Incidents%20Investigation%20Reports/Attachments/155/2021-AIFN0016-2021-%20Draft%20Preliminary%20Report.pdf

[Will]

Okay, so the FDR confirms the correct altitude was set on the MCP prior to departure. Did they advance the throttles to 70% (or thereabouts) and then simply fail to press TOGA?

[United744]

The preliminary seems to omit discussion of this:

According to Mode-S data transmitted by the aircraft's transponder the aircraft remained on the ground until accelerating through at least 216 knots over ground about 4400 meters/14400 feet past the runway threshold and about 90 meters short of the localizer antennas, was airborne at 75 feet AGL at 234 knots over ground already over the first residential houses

"I was just following the flight director" doesn't cut it, and just highlights what I said earlier about being slaves to automation. No awareness of aircraft energy state or position down the runway it would seem...

[DougSnow]

Right out of the Boeing 777 FCTM - the first note...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/creqk5k022g70ja/File%20Feb%2019%2C%2006%2036%2056.png?dl=0

The flight director will lag the airplane by a few seconds - thats why you dont follow it during rotation.

[United744]

Still on the ground passing 230 kts? Lag in the FD is the least of the trouble.