Basic Ethernet question: FDS MCDU connected to PC by cable

[Will]

Good news, I have the Flight Deck Solutions (FDS) MCDU set up so that it's displaying the captain's MCDU on its monitor. The part that is missing for me is networking the device with my PC, so that data goes back and forth from the hardware to PSX.

The manual that comes with the MCDU is written towards people who will plug the device into a switch, and connect by router to the PC. But I don't want to do that. I'd rather use an Ethernet cable and connect the MCDU directly to an Ethernet port on my PC.

Connecting the cable is easy, but I'm having trouble getting the MCDU and the PC to talk to each other. I'm using Windows 10, and I can get to Network Settings and find what it's calling an Ethernet network; when the cable is connected, the PC shows "connected" and when I disconnect the cable, the network shows "disconnected." So far so good? I think what's missing for data is just getting the PC and the hardware talking on the right address.

Is anyone able to help with some beginner's level instructions?

I'm going to make some guesses.

Disable DHCP on the PC so that I can manually enter a static IP address?
Set up the network using IPv4, and ignore IPv6?
Use the IP address that the device resets to after a reboot (192.168.1.200)?
The manual says to enter "Mask 255.255.255.0" but Windows 10 asks for a "Prefix length"... is that 24?
What do I put for DNS servers (preferred and alternate)?

Once this part is finally working, is it correct to assume that the Ethernet auto-detect feature of the Tekworx InterfaceIT module will not see the device, so I need to open a browser and put in the static IP address that I just used above, to start configuring?

Thanks for your help and your patience!

[asboyd]

Will, if you have never set up a network before, then you will have some work to do.
First how many devices do you have and are they also connected to the internet (usually via your router)?

You can "see" what IP address your main PC has by connecting it to your router and then clicking on your network task bar icon, then selecting "Network and Internet Settings"

I assume the PC you want to use is connected to the internet, is that correct?

AlexB

[Ton van Bochove]

Will, it seems we have the same kind of problems ;-) You have an ethernet connection from your MCDU yo your PC? Did you try it with the USB connector or is your MCDU not equipped with this outlet?

[asboyd]

To get the MCDU to connect directly to a PC, you need to use static addressing.

The PC can be configured as 192.168.92.254, subnet 255.255.255.0
And the MCDU as 192.168.92.253, subnet 255.255.255.0
The default gateway and the DNS can be anything as they are not used in a private network.

If you are using windows 10 you can make the network "private" and turn off the firewall for private networks.

Make sure you have a cross over cable (although nowadays this is not really necessary as most ethernet ports on modern PC motherboards will perform auto sense polarity/tx-rx...)

Cheers,
AlexB

[Will]

First how many devices do you have and are they also connected to the internet (usually via your router)?

Can I ignore all the other devices, since I'm connecting the MCDU directly to the PC by Ethernet cable? I do have a router and maybe 10 devices that are connected wirelessly to the home network, but I'm thinking the MCDU-PC link will be its own small private network within (adjacent to?) the home's main network. In other words, the MCDU won't connect to the router.

Back to the subnet question: Windows 10 doesn't have a "Subnet Mask" field in network configurations; instead it asks for a prefix length. Is that always 24?

Ton, my MCDU has no USB. It has three cable jacks: Ethernet, HDMI, and 12V power.

Thanks again guys. I'll try setting up a static IP tonight.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Netmask 255.255.255.0 == /24.  Count the bits from the left.

I assume that your PCs have WiFi. Use that, unchanged, if you want them to connect to the internet.

Then statically define the Ethernet ports to be 192.168.x.y like Alex suggested.

On my Win10 PC, the settings for the Ethernet ports can be found under:

Settings
Network & Internet
Ethernet
Change adapter options
[select adapter]
select Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4)
Properties
Use the following IP address:
192.168.x.y
255.255.255.0 (it autosuggests this)
rest blank
Ok

To test, set up both PCs with a different IP address, connect them, inspect the LED next to the connectors (should be illuminated). Then open a CMD window and type:

C:\> ping 192.168.x.y

with the address of the OTHER PC. It should respond with a bunch of answers. Something like:

Code Select Expand


C:\Users\Hoppie>ping 192.168.1.254

Pinging 192.168.1.254 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.254: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.254: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.254: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.254: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.254:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 1ms, Average = 0ms


If you get this, then you can configure the PSX client with the IP address of the server.

If you don't get this, the fumbling with the firewalls starts.

Hoppie

[asboyd]

If you go into network settings then select "ethernet" on the left hand side, you will find an option to "change adapter options" on the right hand side.
If you click this it will open a window with your PC's network connections.
Click the local ethernet icon and then click "Properties"

You can then select IP V4 and then click "properties" in here you can use the subnet mask 255.255.255.0.

Cheers,
AlexB

[Will]

Thanks all, I have progress to report. I configured the IP address of the Ethernet network as described above.

When I call up a command prompt and type: C:\Users\willc> ipconfig /all, I see (among other things):

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Killer E2600 Gigabit Ethernet Controller
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : B0-4F-13-04-05-8E
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::9dff:54c:9d64:fa1%9(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.92.253(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 212881171
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-28-A5-BD-90-B0-4F-13-04-05-8E
   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
                                       fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
                                       fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

And when I type C:\Users\willc> ping 192.168.92.253, I get just what Hoppie showed:

Pinging 192.168.92.253 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.92.253: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.92.253: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.92.253: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.92.253: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 192.168.92.253:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

So it would seem I'm in the ballpark. But the MCDU manual now says that I should be able to enter the IP address of the MCDU in a web browser. So I do that in both Chrome and Edge, and I get "192.168.92.253 refused to connect" (Edge) and "ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED" (Chrome).

I checked my firewall settings and the range 192.168.92.0-192.168.92.255 was already allowed. Just to be sure, I also specifically entered 192.168.92.253, but I'm still stuck.

Next steps? Thanks so much for your help so far!

[asboyd]

Will,
From your info it looks like your PC is configured as 192.168.92.253
What is your MCDU configured as?
It should be 192.168.92.xxx Where xxx is NOT 253....

You should then be able to ping 192.168.92.xxx and get a response.

Cheers,
AlexB

[Gary Oliver]

Just buy a switch and stop making life difficult for yourself ?

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Will,

Don't ping yourself. Ping the OTHER computer's address. Run ipconfig/all on the OTHER computer to find its IP address.

Web browsers connect to port 80, and PSX does not open port 80. So you will never get a response, that advice is a bit silly.

Buying a switch won't help this... you will always need to have different addresses on different computers.

Buying a router that assigns IP addresses to each connected PC (using DHCP) may work, but then you still need  to figure out which PC got what address, and those are not necessarily stable in time. Static IPs are still relevant in this world.

Hoppie

[Markus Vitzethum]

Hi Will,

can you give a few comments on your infrastructure? I think that might help.

To be more specific:
- how is your PC connected to the internet? (Wifi? LAN cable? If cable, to which device?)
- how is your internet provided? Is there a router or modem or any other hardware provided by your internet provided? If so, which one? What is the connection to the PC?
- are there any other devices connected to the internet?

Thanks,
  Markus

[Will]

Hello Markus, the home setup is pretty simple and everything works. Internet comes into the house on a cable which attaches to a modem (provided by my internet service provider). The modem attaches to a router (Eero) via Ethernet cable. The router sets up a mesh network with two extenders, one upstairs and one in the basement. Numerous devices attach wirelessly to the router, including my laptop and my phone, my partner's laptop and his phone, the TV, my PC, about 9 speakers (Sonos), and two thermostats. Guest users connect as well when we share the password. All of this works fine.

The PC is in the basement, and as I said above, it's connection to the Internet is through Wifi via the router upstairs.

The Flight Deck Solutions MCDU does not have Wifi. It needs to be connected to something via an Ethernet cable--there are no other choices. My plan was to connect the MCDU to the PC by plugging its cable into the Ethernet port on the back of the PC, creating a small network with only two nodes: the PC and the MCDU.

I can't connect the MCDU to the router with the cable, because the router is upstairs. And I can't move the router to the basement, because it needs to connect to the modem via an Ethernet cable. So I'd just like to plug the MCDU into the PC.

Hello Hoppie and Alex, I don't know how I could have gone wrong, but hey, I'm here to learn.

I followed Hoppie's instructions, going to:

Settings
Network & Internet
Ethernet
Change adapter options
Select adapter

(There were three choices here: Bluetooth, Ethernet, and Wifi. Bluetooth was shown to be "Not in use" (which is correct); Wifi was shown to be "Connected to internet" (also correct). The third and only remaining choice was "Ethernet.")

I right-clicked on Ethernet, then selected Properties. Then on the list of attributes, I right-clicked on IPv4.

Then I could enter IP address:
192.168.x.y (I entered 192.168.92.253)
255.255.255.0 (it autosuggested this)
rest blank

Ok

That all went well last night.

When I entered 192.168.92.253, was I telling my PC what address to listen on? If that's the case, then there's still the issue of telling the MCDU what address to talk on. The manufacturer says that it will hard-reset to a certain IP address and then start listening for instructions via DCHP to pick a dynamic IP address assigned by a router. Will the process I described above disable DCHP from my PC? (Windows says my Ethernet address is assigned automatically by DCHP, even without a router.)

If DCHP is disabled, then maybe it's just a matter of doing the hard reset and setting the factory-set IP address in the steps above. thoughts?

Hoppie, you also said "Run ipconfig/all on the OTHER computer to find its IP address."

I don't know how to do that, since the "OTHER computer" isn't really a computer, it's just a keyboard and a monitor. The FDS MCDU is basically a small monitor which attaches via HDMI cable and a keyboard with a few lights. The keyboard sends data via the Ethernet cable to the PC, and the MCDU receives data over Ethernet from PSX about what lights it should turn on. There is a configuration program that bridges it to PSX, but I haven't gotten far enough to test that, because as of yet there's no communication between the PC and the MCDU.

Thanks for your ongoing help, guys.

[Markus Vitzethum]

Hi Will,

if I continue to look on the hardware side, there might be more options (I use/have used both):

- at my in-laws place, I have set up a seperate router (in the living room) which forms a mesh with the internet router in the basement - by Wifi. This router has several ethernet ports (ideally, both routers are from the same brand to work together well. I use AVM Fritzbox which are popular in Germany.) Might not be an option for you.

- some Wifi extenders have ethernet ports as well. Might be worthwile to look...

- I have one room where I have no ethernet socket - in this room I use a powerline extension. Basically two devices which go into the power sockets (110V for you) and send the IP traffic over the power line. Both sides have ethernet ports. One side connects to your router upstairs, the other connects to the MCDU in the basement. Might be the best option for you hardware-wise. Works well, is fairly cheap and you can get up to 500 MBit over the line.

Markus

p.s.
A few more ideas if you want to set up via a direct connection ...
- I also would have voted for a crossed cable (wasn't aware that modern hardware works on either cable).
- Have you checked that the IP adress of the PC's ethernet port is on a different subnet than the WiFi?
  e.g. Wifi 192.168.172.x
         Ethernet for MCDU 192.168.155.y ?

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Ah ok -- if that MCDU has an Ethernet interface but is no full PC, then the game changes.


You will need to figure out how the MCDU finds the PC. There are various ways and some are automatic, but it is hard to guide you in this. If there is a special program to run on the PC, chances are it will automatically find the MCDU. Then you "only" have to tell this special program where PSX is located. But this is all dark to me without knowing that program.


Hoppie

[Will]

The manufacturer is interested in providing solutions to people who will have more than one device in their network. Think: a cockpit builder with three MCDUs, an overhead panel, avionics control panels, and so on, all networked to one or more PCs.

Therefore, their instructions are geared towards a user who will plug the MCDU into a switch and router combo, and will then be assigned an IP address through DCHP. Once these steps are complete, the user runs a program on the PC which "discovers" the MCDU on the network.

But buying another router and a switch just to plug in a device that can connect directly to the PC's Ethernet port seems like a bit much for me. It would be a solution, though, if this doesn't work.

[Markus Vitzethum]

More options ... run a DHCP server program on the PC. But that probably takes some time to figure out the correct settings...

Here are some powerline products on amazon.com - if you go for this solution, it starts (refurbished, as new) from $35. It's basically just plug-and-play, and press a "pairing" button on the devices. I'm 99.9% sure that this will work (if your powerlines in the house are fine :-) ).

https://www.amazon.com/-/en/dp/B0141JH8P0 for TPlink
https://www.amazon.com/-/en/dp/B01N1JN6CV

Markus

[asboyd]

Will,
What IP address does the manufacturer tell you the MCDU defaults to?

If there is no specific address then it will need to connect to a DHCP server before you can access it to give it a static address.
There is a way to do this... if your router has a spare port (or you could temporarily unplug an extender) you can plug in the MCDU. It will get an address from the router.
You can then use the setup menu on the MCDU to find out the address it has been given my the DHCP server.
Once you know this address you can use the browser on your PC to access the MCDU and change it to static and give it the 192.168.92.252 (for example) address. Once it resets you can then plug it into your PC and it shoud connect.....

Don't forget to plug in your extender

Cheers,
AlexB

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Which one of these matches what you have?

https://www.tekworx.com/downloads.php

[Will]

Alex - Thank you and good morning there! The device resets to 192.168.1.200 unless a DHCP server gives it a new address.

Hoppie -- the first one on the list, "interfaceIT Module Manager v1.2.2," is the one that auto-detects the device on an Ethernet connection after it's been set up by a router/switch for use on the network. I'm unclear if that same module is applicable when the MCDU is simply plugged into a port on the computer. The manual suggests the answer is no. Here is the manual:

https://flightdecksolutions.com/storage/app/media/Manuals/FDS%20Pro%20Ethernet%20CDU.pdf

Thanks as always, gents.