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Author Topic: Speed brake armed  (Read 634 times)

Ton van Bochove

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Speed brake armed
« on: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 19:36 »
I am having problems to get the speed brake armed: sometimes it is simply armed and another time it is not possible.
something wrong or do I not understand the logic ;-)
Ton

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 21:44 »
What exactly do you mean with "not possible"?  Does it not want to stick in ARMED?  Does it drive to fully up as soon as you lift the handle out of the detent?


Hoppie

Ton van Bochove

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 22:09 »
What exactly do you mean with "not possible"?  Does it not want to stick in ARMED?  Does it drive to fully up as soon as you lift the handle out of the detent?


Hoppie

Does it not want to stick in ARMED?: yes

Does it drive to fully up as soon as you lift the handle out of the detent?: yes
Ton

Avi

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 23:34 »
You are trying it on the ground with engines running, right?

The logic for extending the spoilers is: throttles 1 & 3 at idle AND (speed brake lever at arm OR throttle 2 or 4 in reverse) AND aircraft on the ground*.

* Aircraft on the ground means both main primary and alternate air/ground relays sense ground and hydraulic systems 1 and 4 are pressurized.

I bet in your situation you are on the ground, hydraulic is pressurized, throttles at idle so the only missing thing is speed brake lever at ARM. Once you do it, it goes up.

EDIT: A little bit more information:
When the speed brake lever is in down, it seats inside a detent so the spoilers won't move up accidently if the captain touchs the lever in flight. The ARM "process" is taking it outside of the detent so at touchdown an actuator will move it to UP (otherwise it won't move).
If the pilots forget to ARM it, there is a backup. When moving throttle 2 or 4 to reverse, it raises the lever out of the detent so the actuator could move it to UP.

You can see it in PSX. With engines out (or no hydraulics) set throttles 2 or 4 to reverse and look at the speed brake lever.

Cheers,
« Last edit: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:55 by Avi »
Avi Adin
LLBG

John H Watson

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 05:44 »

Quote
I am having problems to get the speed brake armed: sometimes it is simply armed and another time it is not possible.
something wrong or do I not understand the logic ;-)

It's not an Airbus. Don't arm it for takeoff. If it arms on the ground, then, as Avi says, mostly likely the hydraulics are off.

Ton van Bochove

  • Join date: Jun 2009
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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 22:39 »
Guys thanks for the input!

Quote
When the speed brake lever is in down, it seats inside a detent so the spoilers won't move up accidently if the captain touchs the lever in flight. The ARM "process" is taking it outside of the detent so at touchdown an actuator will move it to UP (otherwise it won't move).
If the pilots forget to ARM it, there is a backup. When moving throttle 2 or 4 to reverse, it raises the lever out of the detent so the actuator could move it to UP.

It happens on the approach: I try to arm the speedbrake ( mousepointer changes from SP BR to ARMED or use F8) but it does not move a notch back and the mousepointer shows only SP BR. It is something of the latest 10/20 or so flights.
I have to stop the aircraft with brakes only. So I try to find out if I am doing something wrong/not understanding the logic or some interference of hard/software.
Ton

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 23:51 »
In flight you should be able to pull the lever backward all the way to the flight detent (the stop about halfway). Can you?  There is nothing stopping you from doing that, (simulated) mechanically.  Even the flight detent can be deactivated by the proper C/B.  If you cannot deploy speed brakes in flight up to the flight detent, there's something silly going on.


Hoppie

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 01:29 »
Just to avoid misunderstandings:

Spoilers on wings move UP when displayed speedbrake lever moves DOWN (lever moves "southward").

Spoilers on wings move DOWN when displayed speedbrake lever moves UP (lever moves "northward").


When the lever on the display moves from ARM to north, any of the following causes may have occured:

• USB speedbrake lever is fully north and vibrates or is noisy.

• USB speedbrake lever button has been pressed.

• F7 key has been pressed.

• Mouse was in speedbrake lever area and mouse wheel has been turned.

• Mouse was in speedbrake lever area and mouse was dragged northward.


Regards,

|-|ardy

Avi

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 02:59 »
I try to arm the speedbrake ( mousepointer changes from SP BR to ARMED or use F8) but it does not move a notch back and the mousepointer shows only SP BR.

Sorry, I lost you here.
Do you mean it does not move a notch back or it does move back and not ARMED anymore.
When the lever is ARM you should see ARMED with the mouse and a memo message.
Is it possible you take it too much to "the south" and don't set it at the ARM zone?

Cheers,
Avi Adin
LLBG

Ton van Bochove

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:53 »
Problem solved: I used one of the on/of switches on my throttle console to EXT and RET. After removing speed brake returned at the mouse pointer and in as a message. Probably the USB setting of ON/OF impede the arming. A Speedbreak ARM function in the USB menu would solve this problem.
Ton

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 14:09 »
A Speedbreak ARM function in the USB menu would solve this problem.

It's already there. There's a button for north and another button for south. It's the same as the F7 and F8 keys.

To arm the lever while the lever is fully north, just hit the "south" button. Hit, not hold.

Will

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:17 »
"Hit not hold" is important.

I have a button on my HOTAS that is mapped to the south button, and an axis that is mapped to the speedbrake lever. To deploy the speedbrakes in flight, I move the axis controller and it works fine.

To arm the speedbrake before landing, make sure they are not deployed and then one press of the HOTAS button sends one keypress to the south button, and done.
Will /Chicago /USA

Ton van Bochove

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:22 »
Thanks for the info! I think you guys have the same setup as I (Warthog HOTAS joystick and throttle) What switches/buttons you use for mapping North and South?
Ton

Will

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:08 »
On the HOTAS throttle, there's a gray rotary knob thingy on the right side that says INCR at the top and DECR at the bottom. For me, that's the speedbrake axis; rotating that knob backwards moves the speedbrakes smoothly from stowed through deployed. Pushing it full forwards (up toward the far end of the console) stows the speedbrakes.

Then, for the "south button," I mapped it to the silver switch that is just on top of the gray rotary knob. Pulling the switch back towards the back of the console sends one "south button" keypress to PSX to arm the speedbrakes.


I don't have the "north button" mapped to anything, since anytime I need the sppedbrakes to move towards stowed, I can just rotate the grey knob to do that.

It works well, because the gray rotary knob moves in the same direction as the speedbrake lever, and the silver switch on top of it is visually close so that it makes sense. And pulling the switch back is like moving the speedbrake handle back to arm it.
Will /Chicago /USA

Ton van Bochove

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 22:58 »
Thanks Will, On the moment I use this axis for the flaps but I can change that to the square switch on the opposite side.
I will do some experimenting.
Ton

Will

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 02:28 »
I use the square switch on the left side for the flaps.

Advantage: a satisfying CLICK whenever you move the flaps to the next position.

Disadvantage: you have to move the square switch back to neutral again after each increment.

It works for me.
Will /Chicago /USA

Ton van Bochove

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 22:14 »
Thanks Will, everything works like a charme now
Ton

United744

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 00:37 »
IMHO the axis zone for speedbrake armed is too small. I hardly have to move my axis to arm the speedbrake, and if I move it too far, it doesn't arm but deploys a tiny bit.

I find it easiest to just go to the quadrant and drag the lever to the armed position.

Ton van Bochove

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:32 »
But you can calibrate this axis: there are for or five segments
Ton

United744

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Re: Speed brake armed
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 02:34 »
But you can calibrate this axis: there are for or five segments
That'sd for when using an axis for flaps. There is no way to define the armed range for the speedbrake.

I did change the center point of the speedbrake, and now it has a larger armed zone! :D