Nav data for PSX: A new solution

[United744]

@Hardy: what do you need for a nav data editor? I'm willing to create one.

I'm rather surprised that the current provider wants to rip (all of us) off like that. What the hell do they think they'd gain? Instead of a bit of income, they just guaranteed zero income. Makes no sense beyond there is some reason they DON'T want to distribute to this market segment.

Either they got greedy, lazy, or someone put pressure on them to cease selling it.

[Hardy Heinlin]

@Hardy: what do you need for a nav data editor? I'm willing to create one.

I'm already working on new software. The development will take some time because I want the program to be  intuitive for non-experts as well.

[United744]

@Hardy: what do you need for a nav data editor? I'm willing to create one.

I'm already working on new software. The development will take some time because I want the program to be  intuitive for non-experts as well.

OK!

A shame this had to happen at all.

[vnangli]

@Hardy: what do you need for a nav data editor? I'm willing to create one.

....intuitive for non-experts as well.

I am ready to contribute my time for testing... I clearly fall in the Non experts bucket..

[Gilad]

Out of curiosity, is there a way to use our airline's FMC nav database subscription with PSX somehow?

[Hardy Heinlin]

The data package your airline gets from your nav data provider may include both binary data (FMC) and ARINC-424 formatted data. If you get ARINC-424 formatted data, you will be able to convert that to PSX data. I'm developing a convertion program for that purpose. It will be finished in a couple of months and will be free of charge.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[Gilad]

The data package your airline gets from your nav data provider may include both binary data (FMC) and ARINC-424 formatted data. If you get ARINC-424 formatted data, you will be able to convert that to PSX data. I'm developing a convertion program for that purpose. It will be finished in a couple of months and will be free of charge.


Regards,

|-|ardy

Thanks Hardy! Excellent solution.

Looking forward to it,

Gilad

[Gilad]

The data package your airline gets from your nav data provider may include both binary data (FMC) and ARINC-424 formatted data. If you get ARINC-424 formatted data, you will be able to convert that to PSX data. I'm developing a convertion program for that purpose. It will be finished in a couple of months and will be free of charge.


Regards,

|-|ardy

Hi Hardy,

Just got the response from Honeywell regarding out FMC nav database.

"Honeywell navigation database contents are packed in Honeywell proprietary binary format that can be read by the target FMS."

I can assume it is not ARINC-424 compliant is it?

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Gilad,

Honeywell's binary format is not the ARINC-424 text format. So that can't be used, unfortunately. Besides, the binary FMC database doesn't contain all data you need for the sim. E.g. it doesn't contain NDB frequencies and no marker beacons, and no COM frequencies (although that's not essential for sim training).

Do you get any further nav data products from any company? E.g. paper charts, EFB stuff etc.? You need to ask them what their price is for ARINC-424 data. Also, if you need no worldwide data, you may ask for training specific regions, e.g the regions you use in the LH sims.

(You need not purchase the USA region; that can be downloaded free of charge from the FAA website.)


Regards,

|-|ardy

[JP59]

Hello Hardy,

As expected, I am starting to see databases mismatch between PSX 2003 AIRAC and the current AIRAC I am using to build my flight plans etc... I think I am not the only one.

First of all, thank you very much for trying so hard to find a solution. If I can help in any way, don't hesitate to let me know. May I ask for informations ? Is a solution rising and if yes, will it be available soon ?

Thanks again
Best regards,
Jean-Philippe

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Jean-Philippe,

a partial solution will be available soon. It will be one step forward ...


Regards,

|-|ardy

[JP59]

Hi Hardy,

Great news. Thanks for the information. Again, if I can help in any way don't hesitate.

Kind regards,
Jean-Philippe

[Eric Volmer]

Dear Hardy,
Since I intend to buy your spectacular Aerowinx 744 PSX Flight Simulator software soon, I was following this thread about NavData updates with much interest.
As I understood, the key problem is that NavData vendors fear that their data are illegally used for professional products (like PSX) and thus reduce their revenues.
As my contribution, I would like to bring in the following idea, so to say as a possible compromise:
Aerowinx prepares the 13 yearly ARINC-424 NavData updates with a -one week deferred- validity start date for usage in the PSX simulator.
This specifically would mean for the next AIRAC cycle 20-05, that becomes valid on 20.05.2021:
The current cycle 20-04 is continued to be used in PSX until 27.05.2021 and first then is substituted by 20-05. The cycle 20-06 follows on 24.06.2021, instead of 17.06.2021, etc. This procedure would make the NavData in PSX useless for any professional/commercial usage, because of lack of valid worldwide NavData for a complete week. On the other hand, the flight simmers receive actual and valid data for 3 weeks per each cycle.
I do hope that this idea is feasible in your eyes and also acceptable for the 744 community and finally may contribute in renegotiations with the navdata vendors that until now refused to deliver data on behalf of Aerowinx customers.
Best regards,
Eric

[Hardy Heinlin]

Dear Eric,

the delayed release principle sounds like a good idea, but I suggested it to them already. They won't do it. It's against their business model. They have many non-airline customers who would be able to work with outdated data as well.

I understand why they won't do it. Imagine a farmer were to sell half of the milk production to some special people at 30% of the regular price by storing the milk in the house for a month before selling it. It's against their service principle which is based on "freshness". The business model would fail if they were to sell outdated products at a 70% rebate. I also asked the same question Jeppesen back in 1992. I just got their current data.

I must admit, we've been lucky with their prices in the past ten years. When I started the agreement with Navtech in 2010, the amount of nav data was just 50% of the amount today. I guess there's a lot of human work required to gather government data worldwide and transform the information to industrial standards.

The USA part alone already covers about 30 to 50% of the worldwide data. Luckily, the USA and Pacific parts can be downloaded at the FAA web site. A certain company produces ARINC-424 data for the FAA on a monthly basis, and the FAA is so generous and makes them available to all of us -- free of charge.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[Hardy Heinlin]

Some new stuff:

https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=6371.0


Regards,

|-|ardy

[GodAtum]

https://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html
https://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html

Can these .bgl files be converted?

[Hardy Heinlin]

My converter can read ARINC 424 only.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Adding new VORs isn't a big problem anyway. In the past 10 years the world got about 200 new VORs.

That's just 20 VORs per year. It's easy to add them manually with Navburo.


One more tip for VATSIM users who want to fly the latest SIDs & STARs at every airport of the world: If the usage of the latest charts (paper or electronic) is part of your realism, don't forget that the 744 can also be flown on raw data. That's also a part of the realism. You're not forced to fly every procedure just by following a magenta line on the map. You can also switch the ND to VOR mode, so that you get a classic HSI instrument with RMI pointers and a CDI. Enter the VOR radial that is to be intercepted on the NAV RAD page. Fly the procedure as per the text on the charts.

Of course, it's not a complete solution, but it's part of the realism. If you want to fly like a pro, you also need to have some raw data IFR skills like a pro :-)


Regards,

|-|ardy

[Bastien]

Hello Guys,

I think we must study closer the Xplane11 airports and nav datasets as they are in open readable and well documented format.
(https://developer.x-plane.com/docs/specs/)

Xplane11 can be FAA certified for training and used by professionals as well as home users.
Xplane11 can read directly the FAACIFP file, or get update from well known navdata suppliers.
(https://developer.x-plane.com/article/navdata-in-x-plane-11/)

Airport data are community updated and can be done by anyone with WED tool
(https://developer.x-plane.com/tools/worldeditor/)
The database contains more than 39,000 airports
(https://gateway.x-plane.com/airports/page)

We could get good quality data and feed Hardy's converter with just some reorder and little modifications

[Hardy Heinlin]

Good news.

I'm discussing a new solution with Aerosoft.

But this will be available to hobby users only.


Regards,

|-|ardy