FEDEX problem at KLAX

[andrej]

Hi all,
following YouTube video popped up in my recommendation list. I have missed this in news, but I am glad that both pilots are fine, despite one being injured.

"The crew evacuated the aircraft through the cockpit window via a rope. One of the pilots received injuries during the evacuation."

Question, why not use emergency slide? I would presume that it was a safer way to get out of the plane, then using the rope. One another note, I was very impressed how the crew brought the plane to safe stop. It looks very noble and gentle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyVKN_q34tM

More information:
https://avherald.com/h?article=4db7c464&opt=0

Best!

[emerydc8]

There is likely no emergency slide on the aircraft. The primary emergency exit would be via the L1 door, but that exit has inertial reels (no ropes). The window exits have ropes. When given a choice between an inertial reel that may or may not work and a rope, I will take the rope. I'm not sure that's why they went out the windows, but it could be.

[John H Watson]

Do they train the crews to use the ropes? I can't even imagine how to climb down a knotted rope over a curved fuselage.

[emerydc8]

The rope isn't knotted and in some cases it's a tape. They don't train us to use that any more than they make us jump from the overhead hatch with the inertial reels. We did see a TWA video of a guy doing it though. Crazy. I'll take the rope. Having said that, we do have quite a few guys who couldn't even fit through the windows if they had to. It's baffling to me that they are even given FAA medical certificates.

[IefCooreman]

We did rope training, but I think it's demo only normally. It's an interesting job to say the least.

Main emergency exits are the windows. We have slides for the passengers, not for us. If we suspect a fire danger, we are trained to get out via the window. Fun...

[John H Watson]

Interesting. Thanks guys.

" we do have quite a few guys who couldn't even fit through the windows if they had to. It's baffling to me that they are even given FAA medical certificates. "

Same here. I'm surprised some can fit through the cockpit door.

[David Palmer]

The rope isn't knotted and in some cases it's a tape.

I found this pic of the 767 emergency evac. rope.



In the LAX FedEx 767 YouTube video, I see equidistant bumps on the rope from @2:30 and it would appear to match the rope in the above pic.

Compared with the 767, the 747 cockpit escape reels appear to be the better solution for an emergency cockpit evac. as shown in this demonstration 747 cockpit evac. YouTube video below...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5lNVbBeiU

Regards,
David

[emerydc8]

I'll have to check this when I go back to work. I've never unraveled the rope or tape above the pilot seats but I don't recall seeing any knots in either. In any case, I feel more secure using a rope that hoping the reel works to get you stopped before you hit the ground. The FedEx plane was obviously lower to the ground based on the absence of a main gear. Who knows whether the inertial reel is going to slow you down enough before you hit the ground in this case. I don't think the crew wanted to test it.

Jon

[andrej]

Thank you kindly to all replies.

I did not realize that slides may not be installed. I just felt bad for to poor guy (F/O?) as from the video you can see that he took a good hit. Capt. waited for stairs to arrive. I would expect for airlines to provide their important assets at least 1 emergency side. I thought that the rope (or inertial reel) would be used only in the case, when cockpit doors are blocked or there is a fire.

...we do have quite a few guys who couldn't even fit through the windows if they had to. It's baffling to me that they are even given FAA medical certificates.

Now, this is not Air Force. But still, if I was this far in my career, I would make sure to fit through emergency exit. Then again, if your head fits through, your body will as well.

[andmiz]

Sometimes, if you get a really a-hole check captain, you get quizzed on how many knots there are in the emergency rope.  23 comes to mind....so does "who really gives a f...".

[IefCooreman]

But the "rope-door" (or do you call it?) is the perfect place for "pre-flight motivational picture of the month" just to make sure someone is doing the preliminary... :-)

[emerydc8]

But the "rope-door" (or do you call it?) is the perfect place for "pre-flight motivational picture of the month" just to make sure someone is doing the preliminary... :-)

On the Douglas they were in the rudder and aileron trim caps. I do miss the good old days!

[Will]

Over on AvHerald there is a discussion in the comments section about shutting down the engine at touchdown on the side with the gear that didn't extend. Apparently that's in the QRH for at least one model of Airbus.

Any Boeing twin drivers here ever seen that as part of your SOP? Thoughts?

[FreightDog767]

Over on AvHerald there is a discussion in the comments section about shutting down the engine at touchdown on the side with the gear that didn't extend. Apparently that's in the QRH for at least one model of Airbus.

Any Boeing twin drivers here ever seen that as part of your SOP? Thoughts?

No, nothing of the sort. You'd be potentially introducing directional control issues into the mix while you've got a handful of jet to begin with. Much safer to let it come to a stop and shut down after.

To answer some other questions, the 767F indeed does not have a slide, but is equipped with inertial reels for evac out of the L1 door. However, that's predicated on the aircraft standing up on 3 main gear. Best bet here is the rope (but no thanks!).

[Hardy Heinlin]

I thought the inertial reel maintains a constant sinkrate along the entire descend (the heavier the pilot, the greater the inertial counterforce).

If it only stops near the ground, what's the point of the "inertial" mechanism?

Regarding the number of knots on a rope: If you know the number, it might help you when you're escaping blindly in smoke or at night in the woods :-)

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

If at the 23rd knot you still feel no ground, then ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5lNVbBeiU
Cockpit Escape Reels 747-300

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH4BwBfkH30
Another one -- I think it may be a 400.

[IefCooreman]

Over on AvHerald there is a discussion in the comments section about shutting down the engine at touchdown on the side with the gear that didn't extend. Apparently that's in the QRH for at least one model of Airbus.

Any Boeing twin drivers here ever seen that as part of your SOP? Thoughts?

I glanced at the discussion. Not an Airbus pilot, but the people refering to the shutdown of both engines seem to use the same document easily found on the internet which is an unreliable source.

On Boeing we don't do this anyway. It's all about keeping centerline (or trying to). No need to shut down the engines, don't complicate things for marginal safety gains. Once stopped you will quickly get into the evacuation checklist which will guide you further to engine shutdown.

[FreightDog767]

I thought the inertial reel maintains a constant sinkrate along the entire descend (the heavier the pilot, the greater the inertial counterforce).

If it only stops near the ground, what's the point of the "inertial" mechanism?

Regarding the number of knots on a rope: If you know the number, it might help you when you're escaping blindly in smoke or at night in the woods :-)

I admit, even after looking through Vol. 2, it hardly says much about them other than how to use them!

[Hardy Heinlin]

So do you guys think the inertial reel stops one inch above the ground?

How does the reel know how tall you are? :-)

How does the reel know whether the nose wheel tires are deflated, or whether there's a pickup truck under your feet?

How does the reel know whether or not you're wearing Gene-Simmons-platform-boots?


]-[ardy

[emerydc8]

Right or wrong, we were taught that the reels don't have a fixed rate of descent, but rather the initial part of the descent is closer to free-fall, followed by an increasing deceleration rate on the second part. Look at the videos. Does it look like the descent rate is constant throughout?

Jon