Visual display of vital data: 747 versus 787

[Will]

Just curious...

It's clear the 787 has much larger LCD displays, but so far I've only seen one distinct advantage, which is that the ND can show the aircraft's position on the airport. It's got to be helpful to be able to look at your flight instruments during taxi for positional awareness.

But my question to the group is this: does the additional LCD real estate translate into other advantages? The 747 seems to be very clean and useful as is, but of course from a user experience standpoint, I'm sure it's hard to know what I'm missing.

So: when it comes to on-screen display of data to the pilots, is the 787 superior to the 747? If so, how does the 787 UX-design philosophy improve the pilots' jobs? Is that extra LCD real estate used well?

[cavaricooper]

Will-

The 747-8 uses the same size DUs as the 744 but manages to present much the same information as the 787 (Electronic Check Lists with non-normals, Video Cameras, VSD and ND Ground Taxi Charts. Invariably there is some blank screen real estate on the 787.

I'm curious to read Double Alpha's comments in this, but I believe the change was primarily to allow for use of cheaper, more common LCD display sizes. That said, the displays allow for larger scaling, and so they may be easier to read and they "look" more spacey/futuristic .

C

[double-alpha]

Hi Will, hi Cavaricooper

On the bottom part of the ND you can also display the VSD (Vertical Situation Display).
It is a very useful feature.

But beyond this new feature, the most important thing, there is a total of 5 large MFDs.
Therefore each MFD can display a full ND, or a PFD + AUX display (see explication below), or a half ND + EICAS, or a half ND + a system page (COMM, SYS, CDU, Electronic checklist....).

Auxiliary (AUX) Display:
The AUX area outboard of each PFD consists of two distinct areas: clock/flight information and an ATC datalink block. The clock and flight information is located in the upper part of the AUX display and includes:
• flight number • MIC readout • transponder code • SELCAL • airplane tail number • UTC time • date • elapsed flight time • chrono dial and readout

[double-alpha]

That said, the displays allow for larger scaling, and so they may be easier to read and they "look" more spacey/futuristic .

C

I agree....

I have never flown the 747-400 (except PSX!!!) but I have many hours on the a340 (similar screens).
I appreciate larger screens, it is indeed more confortable

[Toga]

I can say it helps build SA. The larger screens offer a clearer picture at times and allows more stuff to be displayed or changed to whatever suits your needs. They both work fine but if given the choice I'd always opt for the larger screens.

T

[ahaka]

I was also thinking what Carl said about the more standard LCD size instead of the square ones. But are they not still custom made screens for Boeing?

For the 747-8, I understand they wanted it to be like the 744 for commonality, with those added features like VSD, e-checklists and airport diagrams on ND, so they chose to go with the square shaped screens.

[Toga]

I don't understand Boeing's logic in keeping the consistency when they developed the max to have large LCD screens yet it shares the same TR with the NG. Larger screens don't change the way you operate the aircraft, it's still all the same.

[sbergert]

At least at my employer we nearly never use the VSD on the ND of the 747-8 ... the map gets so tiny that you can't really see the info, especially if you also have DATA and maybe ARPT selected and the route is not just straight ahead - I really can imagine what big advantage a big screen might be in this case! The VSD is quite great, though Airbus made it better with WX info also shown vertically, we only have the terrain.

[Dirk Schepmann]

Thanks to PS1/PSX, this forum and some other good simulations I learnt a lot about the different Boeing planes in the past 18 years (when my hobby started).

Although all Boeing planes are more or less operated in a similar fashion, I'm always wondering about the myriads of differences. And I'm not only speaking about differences in VNAV logic here (which appears to be enough stuff to write a PhD thesis about differences  ).

Some examples:
- VSD included in 747-8, 787 and 737-NG, but not in 777 (although 777 and 787 share a common txperating)
- HUD only present in 787 and 737-NG
- Autopilot on is usually depicted on PFD as CMD, but A/P in 777 and 787(?)

Although the aircraft are obviously very different and new features have been developed at a later stage, Boeing could have done better to pay more attention to consistency. Of course, type ratings play an important role but this doesn't explain all the differences. Although I love the concept of Boeing, Airbus managed to to add and integrate new features without changing the others.

These are the words of a hobby enthusiast, though. Would be interesting to hear what professionals say about all the tiny differences.

Best,
Dirk

[dhob]

Some examples:
- VSD included in 747-8, 787 and 737-NG, but not in 777 (although 777 and 787 share a common txperating)
- HUD only present in 787 and 737-NG
- Autopilot on is usually depicted on PFD as CMD, but A/P in 777 and 787(?)

An educated guess:

1.  The 777 entry into service was before the 737NG, 787, 747-8 (in that order, 787 and 747-8 both in 2011). The VSD was introduced to the 737NG in 2003, and Boeing had a retrofit option for the 737NG's already in service. The 777 was introduced in 1995, as such too many horses were out of the barn, so to speak, when the VSD became available to make a retrofit viable. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_20/vsd_story.html

2.  The HUD is a function of space between the glare shield and overhead panel. The HUD is an option in 737NG, 787, and available for retrofit on the 767/757 (we are looking at adding HUDs to our 75/76 fleet). Regarding the 747, there isn't enough space for a HUD according to Boeing. I suspect that maybe the reason other airplane types don't have the option.

3.  CMD is an AFDS indicating one mode of autopilot engagement on legacy Boeing airplanes (747,737,757,767). These airplanes had an optional AFDS mode called Control Wheel Steering, CWS, which was selectable on the MCP right below the CMD switches. With CWS, the autopilot was ON, but the flight controls could be manipulated without disengaging the autopilot. Thus there was a need to distinguish between two types of autopilot modes, CMD or CWS. Though I don't know for sure, it's likely the CWS option was discontinued on newer Boeing airplanes (777, 787 etc), and only one AFDS mode was needed to indicate autopilot engagement. A/P would seem the logical choice.