Keep having engine fire while taxiing...

[Lau]

Hi,

Not sure why this is happening, did I do something wrong with the PACK? Tried either ways with PACK on and Off but it keeps happening. All malfuntions are Off. Engine oil temperature in white range. Outside air is very cold +0 C°

It happens with both auto start and manual start.

Thanks and regards,

Lau

[torrence]

Hi Lau

Forgotten the details but this used to happen to PS1 planes if you just keep running them in icing conditions - ice breaks off nacelles and is ingested by engines.  Not sure this is your problem but you might just try de-icing from the instructors page (I've forgotten whether it's part of the malfunctions or somewhere else).  In any case, when SAT < 10 C or TAT <10 C in flight and in icing conditions, you need at least Nacelle anti-ice on.  PS1 is quite unforgiving about real world details - you can have bad engine problems flying through a thunderstorm cell, particularly without continuous ignition ON, for instance   .

Cheers,
Torrence
KLAX

[Hardy Heinlin]

Fire?

Or flame-out?

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Or bump into another plane using Taxiway with traffic injection? This can also work historically. You bumped into somebody (or somebody drove past you) with engines off. Nothing happens, but you miss half your airplane. Then when you try to start the now missing engines, all hell breaks loose.


Jeroen

[Lau]

Fire?

Or flame-out?

Fire alarm + fire warning message on upper EICAS + Estinguisher handle number is read + read cross on fuel cut off valve = Real fire

Hi Lau

Forgotten the details but this used to happen to PS1 planes if you just keep running them in icing conditions - ice breaks off nacelles and is ingested by engines.  Not sure this is your problem but you might just try de-icing from the instructors page (I've forgotten whether it's part of the malfunctions or somewhere else).  In any case, when SAT < 10 C or TAT <10 C in flight and in icing conditions, you need at least Nacelle anti-ice on.  PS1 is quite unforgiving about real world details - you can have bad engine problems flying through a thunderstorm cell, particularly without continuous ignition ON, for instance   .

I thought about this possibility but was not sure if I was going crazy with the precision of this simulator  :mrgreen:   If I remember well, nacelle system will increase rpm which will make the plane harder to taxi. But if there is no other choice I rather have a fast taxiing plane over Ice than a 747 barbecue :roll:
I will try this on next taxi (weather will certainly not get warmer in the next coming months).

Or bump into another plane using Taxiway with traffic injection? This can also work historically. You bumped into somebody (or somebody drove past you) with engines off. Nothing happens, but you miss half your airplane. Then when you try to start the now missing engines, all hell breaks loose.

I am using WinTWY and can see other traffic, this being said I do not monitor at all times my screen when I am parked, kind of busy in the flight deck. My engine fire does not happen at start up, everything works well, lets say for 30 to 40 minutes and then out of no where, FIRE while still taxiing.  If I am luckily enough to go airborne very fast (not a busy airport, lets say 20 minutes) then once in the air I do not have this problem (well not so far

Cheers for your comments, will continue testing and let you know...

Lau

PS: PACK'S none of you talked about PACKS, went through PIPS manual and the big tutorial as well as PS manual but did not managed to fully understand PACKS.
-Why in some cases they are off for take off (engine performance I get...)
-Do they need to be off for taxiing?
-Can they be the reason of a fire? (I guess they could in very warm air but, with +0 C°?)
If you can point me towards some interesting reading on this topic I will be greatfull

[John H Watson]

PS: PACK'S none of you talked about PACKS, went through PIPS manual and the big tutorial as well as PS manual but did not managed to fully understand PACKS.
-Why in some cases they are off for take off (engine performance I get...)
-Do they need to be off for taxiing?
-Can they be the reason of a fire? (I guess they could in very warm air but, with +0 C°?)

Packs simply use the principles described by the physicist Robert Boyle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle's_law

On a 747-400, compressed (bleed) air is extracted from the engines, then cooled (with atmospheric air via a heat exchanger), compressed by the pack, cooled (again with atmospheric air) and then expanded by the pack. The cooling and expansion results in cold air for passenger/crew use.

The pack components are located at the bottom of the fuselage in an unpressurised area. They are very unlikely to cause a fire (certainly not on an engine)

Because the engine bleed air is doing work by running pack turbines, a certain amount of power is taken from the engine, so the engine has to work harder to maintain the same thrust (as an engine not running packs). If you work an engine harder, it gets hotter (as well as using more fuel).

If you are taking off in hot weather, the engine may reach its limits too soon, so it may be necessary to switch off the packs for takeoff. Because taxying does not take the engine to its limits, it won't be necessary to switch the packs off.

If the weather is cold enough to cause ice to form on the engine nacelles, then of course, you should use Nacelle Anti Ice. This also uses engine bleed air. Even if the engine nacelles overheat (by using them in not so cold weather), you will get a warning specifically for this (e.g. OVHT ENG X COWL), rather than a generic engine fire warning.

The fires in PS1 might be being caused by large chunks of ice breaking off from the engine nacelles when large thrust changes are commanded. These large ice chunks may be shattering engine blades and these are being thrown in all directions, damaging parts of the engine which can catch on fire.

So... You don't want the ice to form in the first place, so perhaps you need to switch on the NAI as soon as possible after the engines have started? & give the engine nacelles time to thaw out before applying lots of power  

Regards
JHW

[Lau]

Dear John,

Thank you very much for this very clear explanation and for confirming the possibility in PS1 of large chunks of ice braking the FAN blades and thereafter setting fire on the engine. I mean, what a fantastic sim!

As a matter of curiosity and before reading your post, I tried yesterday evening a flight with 13 C° OAT and no fire engine as a result (which hopefully means that my procedures are no so bad after all - I do not use any checklist and always start from a cold and dark cockpit with random switches + manual engine start)

I must say, if I had followed the after start checklist in PS1 manual like a serious pilot, I should have switched the nacell anty ice sys ON if Icing cond exist. I guess this is what makes the difference in between real airliners and newbies  :oops:

I am also great full to you for your clear and comprehensive explanation of PACK sys (pls no offense to the authors of PS1 manual and other well thought manuals, as I simply did not managed to get the ide before).

With best regards,

Lau

[Hardy Heinlin]

If I recall correctly, in PS1 those ice chunks may cause engine failures, but not engine failures with fire.

Possible causes for engine fires in PS1: Collision with other aircraft, or anything set on the "Add Malfunctions" or "Random Malfunctions" pages.

(If I recall correctly.)


Cheers,

|-|ardy