Winds aloft injection -- just an idea ...

[double-alpha]

In real world (airbus) operation, I load the forecast winds only during preflight (my longest flights are about  12 hours)

I think forecast winds in the FMC and in the operational flight plan should be the same.

[Will]

I think forecast winds in the FMC and in the operational flight plan should be the same.

Yes... I would support this as well. It would be quite nice to make (A) the flight planned forecast winds and (B) the FMC forecast winds identical.

Not to be too repetitive, but I'm sounding a note of caution against making (A) the flight planned winds, and (B) the FMC forecast winds, identical to (C) the ACTUAL winds in PSX... because that would represent a world in which the forecast is always perfect, and that would be an unrealistically sterile and predictable environment.

So I'm in favor of Hardy's randomizer, however he wants to do it.

[torrence]

Re Hardy's request: "I'm not looking for the best one. I'm looking for the four most popular ones that are used by PSX users. "

My input on this is that I've quite liked PFPX as a general planner, but it is overkill for my style of PSX use (in addition to the other characteristics - cost, Windows only, etc.- mentioned by others).  Since I've been using PS Net Dispatch, I've found this a better match for my PSX flights in terms of matching pre-flight work flows etc.  As long as that option remains in the mix of what Hardy ends up with I'm happy. 

As usual, much thanks to the whole community for good discussions and support for understanding how to use the various PSX options and tools.

Cheers,
Torrence

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hardy,

Dont get confused about the wind data output ... PFPX can only create the formats I have shown you - Huey Louie & Dewie.

They get inserted into whichever template I write DLH, ABW, VIR SQC etc .... all of the above list contain either Huey Louie or Dewie.

Do you know which company created the respective wind format? For instance, if the wind format shown in your UPS sample is not only used by UPS but also by other airlines, can we still assume this format is an invention of UPS? This is just a cosmetic question; I'm just looking for reasonable names for my menu. If that UPS wind format is an invention of, say, Aeroflot, I can't call it "American" :-)


|-|

[double-alpha]

.

So I'm in favor of Hardy's randomizer, however he wants to do it.

I compelely agree.

[G-CIVA]

Is this a preferred format among PSX users? I find that ISA deviation method cumbersome.

Hardy,

I have been mulling over this during the night.

I can confirm it is NOT one of the popular formats in use - you already have those.

In light of you comment about the ISA issue - lets leave things as they are.  I have shown a method - in this thread - for PFPX users to achieve a workaround to create the necessary info PSX in the formats PSX requires.

The most recent that we are discussing here which contains the ISA syntax will not be in any of the OFP formats I will be offering for download for use with PSX

[G-CIVA]

Do you know which company created the respective wind format?

Hardy,

The two formats I have provided you other than the one that appears in a BAW CIRRUS flight plan appear in various different company flight plans provided by different flight planning software tools.

LIDO, Jeppessen SITA etc.

Indeed the other two formats even appear in three distinctly different company options provided by LIDO!

So they could all be called 'LIDO' !

This is why I would always err on the side of caution when someone says to you:

"This format is LIDO etc"

Flight Planning providers are in the business of being able to provide what the customer wants - after all - the customer is always right.

So they are not really linked to an airline or flight planning provider.  Some customers will see other Airline examples & follow their lead ... I guess Pilots & Dispatch Staff do get to chat sometimes about what what formats are easier to use than others.

Steve

[Hardy Heinlin]

I could call them "4 wind records" (Cirrus), "5 wind records" (Lido etc.), "6 wind records" (Asiana etc.).

Just one minor addition: There are two variants of the "5 wind records" format:

Code Select Expand

"Lido" sample:
350 357/031 -40 330 338/027 -34 330 322/028 -34 330 322/028 -34

"UPS" sample:
FL310  161/021 -45     FL360  121/017 -52     FL360  045/019 -50

The latter has 3 columns instead of 4, and an "FL" prefix.

So the menu may look like this:

• 4 wind records
• 5 wind records (3 columns)
• 5 wind records (4 columns)
• 6 wind records

BA pilots would click "4 wind records", Asiana pilots would click "6 wind records".

These are just names. The formats will not only have different amounts of records but also different layouts as shown in this thread.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[G-CIVA]

Hardy,

So long as you are happy - I am happy.

I am just doing a final check of all of the PSX related templates & other PFPX related PSX files before I bundle them up in a single folder for dropbox.

I have also sent you an e-mail just incase you did not read my last post but there is something else in there to read too.

Best

Steve

[Bastien]

So the menu may look like this:

• 4 wind records
• 5 wind records (3 columns)
• 5 wind records (4 columns)
• 6 wind records

BA pilots would click "4 wind records", Asiana pilots would click "6 wind records".

These are just names. The formats will not only have different amounts of records but also different layouts as shown in this thread.

For me it's ok like that and clear from a user point of view.

Will the text box have an error control if the wrong menu is chosen, to inform the user ?

Bastien

[Hardy Heinlin]

The menu is just for the case when PSX generates a text.

When PSX reads an edited or pasted text, the format is detected automatically.

The function can also be used to convert a format, although it won't make much sense.

[Bastien]

The menu is just for the case when PSX generates a text.

When PSX reads an edited or pasted text, the format is detected automatically.

The function can also be used to convert a format, although it won't make much sense.

Great solution!

Regards
Bastien

[Will]

Hardy,

What are you planning to do with the rest of winds in the PSX sky? Like for example, if the flight plan includes winds for only three waypoints, what would the winds be like for the remaining ten thousand stations? Or if the flight plan had winds on a route from Paris to Berlin, what would the winds be like over Beijing or Bangkok?

[Hardy Heinlin]

I'll make a tutorial when it's finished :-)

[evaamo]

Hi Hardy

I understand you already decided to go the text route, however, as I mentioned in this forum a few months ago, I am (or was) writing a Java tool for injecting Winds Aloft and other stuff. Sadly, life as a cybersecurity incident responder has left me little time to advance the project. Anyhow, the reason I'm telling you this is because  there are ways to reduce the size of GRIB2 downloads dramatically, and by that I mean the download could be in the range of a couple of hundreds of Kilobytes. One just has to select the correct "items" and the necessary altitude levels using an http request directly to the NOAA servers. X-Plane 11, for example, downloads its worldwide Winds Aloft data and I rarely see it go above 250Kb. In my own code, I had it down to 400-600Kb approximately (it was not optimized) by using the lat/lon values of the filed route (I was intending to use the FMC to pull that information from, but didn't get to that point). If you're interested, I could send you the code I wrote for that if you're ever interested in following that path. Downside is, I won't be home for another week or so.

Cheers
-E

 

[cavaricooper]

Enrique-

I would be a cheerleader for anything that took us in the direction of directly injecting LIVE REAL WX, Winds & Temps into PSX; so if auto-parsing GRIB data could facilitate more efficient downloads, I'm a fan!

Ultimately, that IMHO is as important as accurate VNAV or Fuel Burn- an essential element of the 747-400 operational simulation.

The copy/paste can be more immediately instituted, and could be an temporary/interim solution, but the end game's necessity is obvious (to me anyhow).

For P3D (for visuals) users, JP's WidePSX and Mark/Gary's PSX.NET/WINDS do the trick.

Best- C

[J D ADAM]

Hi 
Grateful any improvement in upper winds projections,although I know they can vary for obvious reasons .
On a flight across the Tasman yesterday at FL 400 the following were results I gleaned from four sources.


SimBrief                  261/97
PSX  On PFD            252/80
Active Sky               257/97
Download PSX         261/131 

With the wind on the nose like this I took a long time to reach YSSY from NZAA!

Am I doing something wrong (which would not be unusual) or are these normal expected variations?

Cheers
Derek

P.S. It may be that the route is not strongly populated thus reports vary.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Enrique, I know, nevertheless it would bloat PSX with an additional big factory (preparing, downloading, processing) that just rebuilds a wheel that already exists -- in the user's flight plan. Users have a flight plan and want this plan to (almost) agree with the simulator. It makes no sense to produce two books in two factories that contain the same text anyway.

Carl, I think you're misunderstanding something. No matter whether I read the forecast data from the NOAA server or from your flight plan; in either case they are FORECAST data, NOT real-time data. "GRIB" is a format for data compression which is used for FORECAST data; it's not a "LIVE" format.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[cagarini]

Hi 
Grateful any improvement in upper winds projections,although I know they can vary for obvious reasons .
On a flight across the Tasman yesterday at FL 400 the following were results I gleaned from four sources.


SimBrief                  261/97
PSX  On PFD            252/80
Active Sky               257/97
Download PSX         261/131 

With the wind on the nose like this I took a long time to reach YSSY from NZAA!

Am I doing something wrong (which would not be unusual) or are these normal expected variations?

Cheers
Derek

P.S. It may be that the route is not strongly populated thus reports vary.

I've seen weather injection tools populating the whole route with a snapshot of aloft winds & temps for a given time ( ETD, time of mid route, etc... ) while others do a more sophisticated use of the GRIBs and populate the fixes with data that is retrieved based on the expected time at that particular fix, interpolated... Ohers use a mix of these with their own randomization.

I believe Flight Operation software IRW also do this more sophisticated stuff for a route with alternates ( ? ).

Since I rarely play PSX with a full, "747-type" route, but prefer to jump from place to place, searching for weather, I seldom even start PFPX or use my SimBrief account.

[cavaricooper]

Carl, I think you're misunderstanding something. No matter whether I read the forecast data from the NOAA server or from your flight plan; in either case they are FORECAST data, NOT real-time data. "GRIB" is a format for data compression which is used for FORECAST data; it's not a "LIVE" format.

|-|ardy

HH-

I get that, the point I hope I'm making is that eventually the goal MUST BE injecting REAL Wx into PSX at every FL, so that we plan with FORECASTED Wx and fly with REAL Wx.

The copy/paste can be more immediately instituted, and could be an temporary/interim solution, but the end game's necessity is obvious (to me anyhow).

That is the ONLY solution that approaches the perfection the PSX strives for and achieves in everything else!

Users have a flight plan and want this plan to (almost) agree with the simulator.

This user is busy finding and planning for the DIFFERENCES between the two, in much the same way as I believe the commercial world would appreciate their trainees building skill sets to deal with those same differences.  Whilst "agreeable" Wx is less eventful, it's the UNPREDICTED DIFFERENCES where learning blossoms. 

The difference between DISPATCH FUEL, and the seasoned captain mumbling, "Lets add a few tons tonight."

Only one opinion.

Best- C