Aerowinx Nav Database Update 2018

[Markus Vitzethum]

I've seen this discussion multiple times by now. To my experience, it almost always begins with "I cannot fly online on network X or Y".

But as long as I fly online (20 years now), I've never ever seen that the complete network breaks down because of NavData not being up-to-date. Personally, I don't believe that monthly upgrades to NavData solve every conceivable problem with flying online, for a few reasons:

- on most networks, there is a wide variety of pilot experience when it comes to IFR route planning. You'll find everything from GPS-direct, to pilots flying VOR to VOR, up to Eurocontrol CFMU validated top-notch flight plans. Things are much better than a few years ago due to better tools (PFPX), more experience and better training, but still: all the networks I know do a lot to support less experienced pilots or to fix less-than-perfect flight plans. Or cater for pilots without charts, without latest NavData etc...

- in most cases, the changes from one revision to next months revision are minor, e.g. the SID changes from GIVMI4W to GIVMI5W. The SID/STAR entry/exit remain the same. I think I can handle that. (And I do a lot in PSX. I'm happy with that.)

- Yes, in some cases, something more fundamental changes, but you can always get the current complete SID or STAR into PSX using e.g. PFPX route export. This won't help you with late changes but more often than not, I'm under radar vectors anyway.

- Generally, in most cases, traffic density on online networks is not high compared to real life. So ATC will be able to help you, accept your outdated NavData, or just vector you anyway. In high traffic situations (Worldflight) it might be different, but ATC will usually be able to resolve it.

Finally, people always seem to worry about some missing STAR X or a changed SID Y. But you have to consider that more things change in the real world which cannot be updated by a Navigraph update. Typically, these are runways or runway lengths.
E.g. there are dozens of runways, say, in China, that are not present in the visual FSX/P3D database (e.g. 03/21 in ZUCK, 12L/30R in ZHCC, 06/24 in ZSHC). PANC has a 1500' runway extension done in 2011, ... In many cases, runway changes are not done in add-ons in many years, e.g. the KORD layout is completely outdated, even with add-ons. Yet, most people don't seem to care about updates. They know it might take long to fix it, so they accept the fact and just adjust their procedures... why not also with NavData?

Markus

p.s.
Basically, been there, seen that, since I used to supply PS1.3 with NavData updates from 2001 to 2005. I believe that I gained experience (for me) about what can change and how it is operationally relevant.

[cagarini]

Although I have mentioned ELITE and Airlinetools above, the only reason I buy the yearly updates for PSX is to get the additional features that are enabled when we install those databases.

In more than 25 yrs playing flight simulation, and apart from PFPX, long ago Jeppesen SimCharts, and recently a 1 month subscription of Navigraph, I never spent any money in this type of products.

I am more than good with the way it works in PSX. Actually I'm only interested in the "additional features" enabled by those databases :-)

[Martin Baker]

I hope to be flying online again soon. Presumably if I'm asked to do an approach which isn't in the database (but for which I have the charts) I can still fly it with help from 2 VOR receivers, 2 NDB receivers and the fix page? Sounds like a lot of fun to me!

[Roddez]

- Generally, in most cases, traffic density on online networks is not high compared to real life. So ATC will be able to help you, accept your outdated NavData, or just vector you anyway. In high traffic situations (Worldflight) it might be different, but ATC will usually be able to resolve it.

Good point Markus, Worldflight happens in November and Hardy's Nav Cycle update is in March...  We all find a way to manage. 

Rod.

[turbodiddley]

I just purchased and installed via the Aviation Megastore.

Works perfectly. My Jeppesen plates match.

Danke schoen, Hardy!

[JRBarrett]

I am looking forward to the 2019 update. I prefer using current charts and flight plans. There have been substantial changes at several US airports in the past 12 months. At some airports (KJFK), it seems that SIDS and STARS remain the same for years, but at others, such as KDTW, almost all SIDS and STARS that existed last March have been deleted, to be replaced by new RNAV procedures with new waypoints that don't exist in the current database. At KPHX, many of the STARS are the same as last year, but the SIDS are all new.

[localiser]

This thread is strangely fascinating....

@Markus Vitzethum I remember using your navdata updates in those days and the excellent glideslope.de "type rating" course. Fabulous stuff, and thank you!

I wonder how commercial vs home use would be defined. As a current 744 pilot using PSX at home, would it be classed as home use? I don't know what the processes are behind Aerowinx and Hardy's production of the navdatabase (how many people work on it, how much time was spent securing the contract and so) but it is much better than nothing. I remember what a revelation Markus' navdata was almost 20 (!) years ago and we (the 744 forum community) could upgrade from the Swissair database!

To those people striving for realism I'd also like to say - more as a reassurance than anything else - is not to worry too much, especially about something as easily workaroundable as navdata. If it's not clear, in aviation you normally take a common sense approach. In the current case we have something inside twelve months' validity which gives a broadly up to date set. If you couldn't fly an RNAV SID or a STAR in the real world you'd request a conventional nav departure at an airport that has them or vectors, simple as that. Granted, there may be airports that demand a minimum nav spec. However, ESSA for example, has certain RNAV SIDs with a non FMS/RNAV underlay - "climb ahead to Dx.x VOR then turn left heading, expect radar vectors".

AC 90-100 US Terminal and Enroute Area Navigation ops says



I haven't actually had this happen to me, but if you couldn't fly the arrival I guess the filed plan would send you from the airway to a VOR or direct to the airport and then when you get there a discussion with ATC would probably result in a few direct to waypoints and some vectors.

Similarly, someone mentioned RNAV SIDs out of KDTW. The attention all users pages has this



If you're unable the RNAV departure you should let delivery know. They'll most likely give you a contingency departure - headings and altitudes to fly.

Having said that, I found myself at Heathrow once at of my previous airlines in a dear old 737 with no departures or runways for EGLL. We wrote down an IRS lat/long at the threshold, flew the SID raw data and saved the threshold in the temporary database for later. I've also been in Boeing and Airbus full flight sims for rating courses and six month checks and nav databases have sometimes been severely out of date! It never stopped them from doing the check!

[Phil Bunch]

I just purchased and installed via the Aviation Megastore.

Works perfectly. My Jeppesen plates match.

Danke schoen, Hardy!

Same perfection worked for me for this update.  (I don't have Jepp plates, though.)

Thanks, Hardy!

[siliconbase]

Hi

I have updated to 201903 but some SIDS in EDDF which should not exist according to Jeppsen Charts still exist on EDDF departures. All DKB** SIDs should have been removed but they still exist.

About page shows 1903 airac cycle. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks
Bora

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Bora,

1903 is correct.

It's normal that Jeppesen and Navblue are not always 100% identical.


|-|ardy

[Hardy Heinlin]

Note: This is an outdated thread; here is the 2019 thread:
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5157.0
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