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Old Hong Kong

Started by funkyhut, Tue, 21 Mar 2017 05:13

funkyhut

Why? Because I'm unashamedly stuck back in the 1980's when I lived and worked in Hong Kong and used to fly a C172 IFR out of Kai Tak most weekends and some Wednesday evenings. Also, because of the uniqueness of the Hong Kong Aviation Club, I was privileged to have access to the Cathay Pacific 747-2/300 and 747-400 full motion simulators in the mid to late 1980's and access to the flight deck for many landings on Runway 13.
I'm not a PSX procedurally correct fanatic but love to tinker. To fly out of airports to TOC and then to approach airports for the STAR and landing. And not always doing it "by the book" but doing it to enjoy. If someone has a burned kerosene smelling air freshener..........

Here is something I hope you can enjoy and share in my love of the old Kai Tak.
Thanks to BritJet on whose video this scenario is based and to Brian who provided some long lost input from Hardy in the PS1 days.

A situ departing VHHH 07L: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5aN13PaH6miaHFnM3ZQdVdBVUE
and an accompanying explanation: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13QG8CMxNlU3rxh8ZmmLMkxpCGpuDeSvSkbYYSlQW_KI

Thanks.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

acannata

Hardy,

Could it be feasible to add Kai Tak runway, IGS 13 and curved approach lights in next PSX update?
Thank you

Aldo

Hardy Heinlin

Feasible: yes. But I'm not in the mood to do this work.


Regards,

|-|ardy

farrokh747

Hi,

I had saved some situs for Kai Tak using existing vor/ndb's - the outer and middle marker for the old 13 rw is still in the navdatabase for some reason -  (GOLF, SL, HKOM1, HKMM1, RW)

http://farrokhchothia.com/slists/VHHX/

charts

http://ivao.hk/download/charts/VHHX.pdf


The cockpit may not be totally setup in these situs - but the route in  - give it a try.....

cheers,

fc

funkyhut

Many thanks. I'll take a look.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

Britjet

Many thanks to Chris and to FC for his superb charts.
I really like your presentation, Chris!
You have got my juices flowing and I will put together a video.
It is a great opportunity to demo how to set up PSX for a non-database airport as well as using NDBs for a non-precision approach - something which is sadly a bit of a lost art these days!
Peter

Markus Vitzethum

Hi all,

what I have done already - it definitely works with PSX + P3D - is using the external visuals (for me: P3D + Flytampa Kai Tak scenery) as reference. (If you look closely you will notice some differences to the old videus like Stonecutters Island not being an island anymore but rather a container terminal.  :-) )

Peter is right, you can use some of the old NDBs (Stonecutters comes to mind) and fly part of the approach on instruments. Otherwise, it will be a visual approach. You can even fly the old "harbour visual approach" (ILS31, followed by a circling manoeuvre over Hong Konk harbour to runway 13 (described e.g. in "Impact Erebus" by Gordon Vette). :-)

Anyway ... PSX won't mind that you touchdown on a PSX-non-existent runway which nevertheless exists in FSX/P3D. (Done that multiple times e.g. in ZUNZ, ZUAL VHHX ... :-) )

Markus

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Just curious...

Would there be legal issues if somebody would attach a database extension to the navaid database purchased by Aerowinx from a professional data service provider, so that the old Kai Tak re-appears without much extra work at all?


Hoppie

Markus Vitzethum

Hi Jeroen,

I asked the same some time ago... see reply #7 and #8 in http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=1864.msg18179#msg18179.

Markus

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Too long ago. Memory does no longer reach that far back.

What is PS1?


Hoppie

funkyhut

Quote from: Markus Vitzethum on Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:26
Hi all,

Peter is right, you can use some of the old NDBs (Stonecutters comes to mind) and fly part of the approach on instruments. Otherwise, it will be a visual approach. You can even fly the old "harbour visual approach" (ILS31, followed by a circling manoeuvre over Hong Konk harbour to runway 13 (described e.g. in "Impact Erebus" by Gordon Vette). :-)

Markus

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5aN13PaH6miVldkTzk0VmZsbHM
This is a link to download the CC NDB Approach to VHHX. Did it many times in the 172 (VR-HKA) if you feel like a super challenge in PSX. My skills are way short of being able to do it but hopefully one day.......
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

funkyhut

Quote from: Britjet on Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:05
Many thanks to Chris and to FC for his superb charts.
I really like your presentation, Chris!
Peter

Thanks Peter but the thanks are to you for all you have contributed!
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

funkyhut

Quote from: Markus Vitzethum on Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:26

Anyway ... PSX won't mind that you touchdown on a PSX-non-existent runway which nevertheless exists in FSX/P3D. (Done that multiple times e.g. in ZUNZ, ZUAL VHHX ... :-) )

Markus

Here is a situ from farrokh747 (many thanks) putting you on Runway 13 at VHHX to depart with the IGS13 circuit in the FMC. You'll need to check the LEGS page for speeds and altitudes etc.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5aN13PaH6miYXJNZFFud0ZVLU0
And the view in FSX with Fly Tampa and VisualPsx.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5aN13PaH6miYUhnTHZweHlnZ2M
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

farrokh747

QuoteYou'll need to check the LEGS page for speeds and altitudes etc.

:-)   I did this in a hurry, so all items may not be populated correctly......  but i think , with the charts in hand, one could easily make a lnav/vnav profile right up to the RW point.....

I dont know why the OM and MM for the old IGS are still around.... perhaps everyone's forgotten about them....

Did anyone try the SID's from the old charts...?

fc

funkyhut

I tried BEKOL which works.
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

farrokh747

Ive added one more - VHHH 25L TO VHHX.situ

http://farrokhchothia.com/slists/VHHX/


Flaps 10, first constraint at 5000ft - BEKOL2B (modified)  dep from VHHH 25L - should work ok in lnav/vnav

You may want to switch on TERR Override...  :-)

give it a try....

fc

funkyhut

Quote from: farrokh747 on Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:40
Ive added one more - VHHH 25L TO VHHX.situ

http://farrokhchothia.com/slists/VHHX/

Good one.
Way back when, flights arriving from the north would normally be vectored from BEKOL to intercept KL IGS13 D15 from the north, avoiding the CH - GOLF sequence. Hours of miss spent evenings with a Sony Airband listening. I lived in Mid Levels and had a great view of most of the IGS approach, the turn and Kai Tak. Binoculars, the radio, and a G&T, sitting on the balcony. Such fond memories!
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

farrokh747

#17
Some more info - for manual inputs....

IGS LLZ/DME RWY 13 KL ILSD 22.003299 114.104167111.90T  -- not sure about this one....
LLZ/DME RWY 31 IIHK ILSD 22.324500 114.193667109.90T
CH36X GP NDB 22.326667 114.191333333.00N
HONG KONG INTL RW NDB 22.326667 114.191333337.00N
IGS RWY 13 GP NDB 22.326833 114.092500331.00N

FIX OM13 LATLON N 22 19.404 E 114 06.009   -  ENTER AS HKOM1
FIX MM13 LATLON N 22 19.574 E 114 10.209   -  ENTER AS HKMM1

FIX CH LATLON N 22 13.200 E 114 01.800
FIX CC LATLON N 22 12.100 E 114 01.600
FIX TH LATLON N 22 14.300 E 114 17.300
FIX SC LATLON N 22 19.200 E 114 07.900
FIX RW LATLON N 22 19.600 E 114 11.500
FIX SL LATLON N 22 17.500 E 113 54.400


HONG KONG KAI TAK VHHX13 10930136 22.321667 114.196667111.9008800015
HONG KONG KAI TAK VHHX31 10930316 22.305500 114.214500109.9031600015


More info here:

http://aivlasoft.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/229-adding-sidstars-to-vhhx-kai-tak/

farrokh747

A Question:


IGS LLZ/DME RWY 13 KL ILSD 22.003299 114.104167111.90T


This places it in the middle of the sea, way south of the field.....   any idea what's going on here?


fc

funkyhut

Where did that come from?
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.