PFC Rudder and throttle quadrant not recognised

tango4 · Sun, 11 Dec 2016 13:08

Good afternoon Hardy,
Sorry to bother you once again. I come for help regarding my new hardware which is not working with PSX at the moment.
I just received my PFC hardware:
*One Saab Column Yoke
*One Cirrus Rudder Jet pedals
*One throttle quadrant with the 4 engines TOGA button option.

I still have my warthog stick and throttle connected.
I am able to configure the yoke without any problem, but I can't get the rudder or throttle to work in PSX.
Their output is configured as standard joystick (not he PFC style output).
They appear correctly under windows USB game controller menu (and are working well). I have them working in P3D V3 and X-Plane.
I tried unplugging different controllers and got strange results.
(Let's forget the warthog ad I did some test with it unplugged all the time)
When only the yoke is plugged in, it appears correctly in PSX and is working.
If I also plug my rudder and/or throttle quadrant, they are listed in PSX, but all their axes appear as "PFC Cirrus Yoke - Unknown" and they are not responsive.
Under windows game controller interface, they are correctly listed as PFC Rudder Pedals and PFC Throttle Quadrant Console.
Now if I only plug in the rudder and/or throttle quadrant, No USB device is detected at all !
I am a bit at a loss here and hope there is some kind of solution as I bought this mainly for PSX.

Tell me if I can make any test to help you diagnose what is going on.

Charles

Hardy Heinlin · Sun, 11 Dec 2016 13:16

Hi Charles,

here are some possible solutions:

http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=3495.msg36776#msg36776

http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=1951.msg21936#msg21936

Cheers,

|-|ardy

tango4 · Sun, 11 Dec 2016 13:44

As usual, thanks for your 24/7 top notch support !

Setting the UsbUnknownIncl=1 mostly did the trick but I still have an issue.

What is strange is that my rudder and throttle quadrant appear twice in PSX. I still have the invalid entry with unknown, but I also have the correct one which I can edit.

Now this is no biggie but I still have a more serious issue with my throttle.
There are 7 axis in total on it:
*one rudder trim axis on the console itself that I am not using in PSX
*6 axis on the quadrant : one spoilers, 4 engines, one reverse

The problem I have is that axis for engine 4 and axis for reverse thrust are given the same name in PSX (they are both know as "PFC Throttle Quadrant Consol - slider" and so they are unusable. If I assign engine 4, it will jitter because every micro movement from the reverser axis is interpreted as a movement from engine 4.

In windows usb game controller interface, those axis are known as "Dial" for engine 4 and "Slider" for reverse.

Any idea ?

tango4 · Sun, 11 Dec 2016 16:27

Don't know if that can be of any help but I just downloaded Joy2Key software.
And when analyzing my device, the 2 problematic axis are referred to as slider 1 and slider 2 in that software.
Strange...

cavaricooper · Sun, 11 Dec 2016 21:26

Charles-

FWIW the slider and dial are NOT recognized as axis' in PSX, so my workaround is to configure my console with 2 separate Leo Bodnar USB cards, which then give me enough axis' so that flap and spoiler work in PSX. Probably not what you want to hear.... sorry! If you do find a software solution I would be most appreciative.

HTH- C

tango4 · Sun, 11 Dec 2016 21:44

HI Carl and thanks for your input, although not very good news indeed.
Two remarks:
*What I have is the "basic" usb throttle quadrant (not the bigger ones). And slider AND dial are recognised as axis in PSX, but they are both called the same, so that 2 physical levers control the same software axis, and the other software axis cannot be controlled.
*What surprises me is that those axis are recognised correctly by windows calibration and work perfectly fine in P3D and Xplane without any plug-in.

Charles

Hardy Heinlin · Sun, 11 Dec 2016 23:14

What's listed in the text file Developers/USB-Detect.txt?

This file shows what PSX receives from the Java USB interface. If PSX receives no reasonable data from the interface, or the interface receives no standard data from the hardware, I have no chance to solve the problem within PSX, unfortunately.

Regards,

|-|ardy

emerydc8 · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 00:29

Hi Charles,

Are you able to set the parking brake with your PFC Cirrus rudders? Initially, when I fully depressed my brakes, they went to -1000, so I had to swap the wires on the potentiometers so it would show +1000. Then I could get the virtual parking brake lever to hold. Hope you get your USB issues fixed.

Jon

Hardy Heinlin · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 00:37

You can also swap the axis in the PSX software. Just enter a negative null zone value.

|-|ardy

emerydc8 · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 07:23

Thanks, Hardy. For some reason, I think I tried that and couldn't get it to work. It's obviously an issue with the PFC Cirrus rudders. I just thought I'd throw it out there in case Charles had the same problem.
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=3747.msg39161#msg39161

Jon

tango4 · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 07:41

Jon, thanks for your help, but apparently, reversing the axis directly inside PSX seems to be doing the trick for me.
Hardy, I'll post in the next post the content of my USB detect file.
What is strange once again is that you can see in that file a mention about the "dial" axis I'm talking about. But in PSX it is reported as slider.

And as I said what surprises me is why it would work in any other sim without additional driver if it is non standard ?
I was even able to use those axis (for test purposes) under falcon BMS 4.33.

Sorry for the trouble...

And by the way, thanks again Jon for the advice, PFC hardware is indeed top quality !

tango4 · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 07:41

Hardy Heinlin · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 15:50

Thanks for the info, Charles.

Quote from: tango4 on Sun, 11 Dec 2016 21:44
... slider AND dial are recognised as axis in PSX, but they are both called the same, ...

Could you make a little screenshot of the USB page in PSX, just of the area where these PFC Throttle Quadrant sliders are displayed?

I think I now understand the problem. I thought you mean that "slider" and "dial" both being an axis is an error. It is not an error; there are only two categories in PSX: Buttons and axes. All devices that provide on-off signals are buttons, and all devices that provide analog, variable values are axes.

The problem is not those two component names being identical (they are not even displayed in PSX); the problem is that those two component identifiers being identical. In the USB detection test, the name is the last word before "(analog)", e.g. "Z Rotation"; the identifier is the word before the name, e.g. "rz".

I assume there are not enough identifier words in the USB standard to give every PFC TQ axis a different identifier word. They use aileron, elevator, rudder identifiers for some thrust levers, and the slider identifier for the fourth thrust lever. And then there is no more unique identifier for the reverser.

I will check if I can solve this problem in the PSX code. But, actually, the USB components in PSX are identified by array indices (list numbers as they appear in the detection text) independent of the component names and identifiers. I'm not sure yet, but it is possible that the problem lies in the Java USB interface, i.e. that PSX receives from both sliders the same signals.

Regards,

|-|ardy

Just for a general test: Is anybody on the forum who uses one Leo Bodnar card for multiple axes? If so, can you tell me what component identifiers and names the card uses for each axis? (Listed in the USB detection text file.) I'm asking because I want to see if multiple equal identifier words can really be the cause of the problem. If the Bodnar card works and uses equal identifier words, it cannot be the problem.

tango4 · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 16:51

Good evening Hardy and thanks again for all your efforts.
I just made two quick videos trying to show you the problem.
Tell me if you can see the info you are looking for.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ga15wv8lgagh35/20161212_173844_001.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m8y60u1nnia6qyr/20161212_173926.mp4?dl=0

And by the way I still can't figure out how to upload a photo from my hard drive to the forum (embedded in a post). Is there a tutorial somewhere for that ?

Charles

tango4 · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 16:58

And I forgot,
I have another related request (if you find the time in a future update).

Could it be possible to have two new functions assignable as button pushes regarding landing gear.
At the moment, you only have gear cycle.
Could you consider adding "Gear Up" and "Gear down". Once again this is related to my PFC console. It features a small gear lever that only has two positions. The only workaround I can see at the moment would be using something like Joytokey and add a dual "G" press to move it up, and same thing for gear down.

Don't worry though, it is a minor issue for me as I can assign the gear lever to my Warthog, but if it is doable that would be nice.

Charles

Hardy Heinlin · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:51

Thanks for the videos, Charles.

So the the first software slider is linked with the first two hardware axes. Regrettably, this seems to be a problem within the Java USB interface (unable to distinguish duplicate IDs?), therefore there's nothing I can change within PSX to solve the problem. PSX receives an array of USB components from the Java USB interface. Each component is listed on the USB page, and each of these component is polled individually by their array index as provided by the interface.

To upload images you can use your dropbox or this: http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=1744.0

Regards,

|-|ardy

I'm sorry, gear up/down assignments are not my to-do list as this wouldn't make sense; I'll reconsider it if there is any USB console on the market that provides a 744 typical 3-way gear lever with up/off/down.

tango4 · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 20:41

Regarding the gear assignment, don't worry I just gave it a shot !

And regarding the axis, well too bad but not your fault !

Just to make sure, in the log file I sent you above you can see in lines 2 and 3 ( the axis in question) that Dial and Slider appear. Isn't there a way to use that info in PSX to tell it that those are separate axis ? I think the answer is probably no, just making sure we did not leave anything out.

Anyway, thanks for trying.
After that, I will ask Santa to talk to the guys at Oracle !

I'll try to post a picture of my setup as a test for my new photo upload knowledge (Jon was kind enough to send me an email tutorial just before I got your answer !)

Hardy Heinlin · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 21:07

Quote from: tango4 on Mon, 12 Dec 2016 20:41
Just to make sure, in the log file I sent you above you can see in lines 2 and 3 ( the axis in question) that Dial and Slider appear. Isn't there a way to use that info in PSX to tell it that those are separate axis ?

PSX already knows that those are two separate axes: You see two different components on PSX's USB page. But the interface sends both sliders' signals to the second component only.

It's like having two ATC frequencies, one for Tower and one for Ground. But the interface sends both Tower and Ground chatter to PSX on the Ground frequency only. No chance to hear any chatter on the Tower frequency, although you have another radio listening on the Tower frequency.

QuoteAfter that, I will ask Santa to talk to the guys at Oracle !

The interface is not directly from the Oracle guys. Here's the team: https://java.net/projects/jinput

|-|ardy

tango4 · Mon, 12 Dec 2016 21:30

That's perfectly normal !
Tower frequency is not for chatting. Ground frequency, well....

And thanks for the link.
I might try and contact the devs sometime. That's probably a long shot but who knows.

tango4 · Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:02

Just as a test, as mentioned above, here is a picture of my new setup.

Cheers.

Charles

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