Home Cockpit - Planning and Questions

[KaiTak]

Dear fellow simmers,

The excellent PSX has finally triggered my firm decision to start building a home cockpit around it. However, contrary to the many vendors for 737NG home cockpits in Europe, it is rare to get 747 hc parts. As an unexperienced builder, several questions arise, and I am also not sure whether all my assumptions are correct.

I want to start with CPFlight 747 MCP and Efis, glare shield, main panel and CDU bay, the main panel equipped with all switches and annunciators. Want to use touch screens for CDU and overhead panels. My main concerns are:

1.
So far, the only vendor for a complete MIP frame and CDU stand with engraved backlit panels I know of is Flightdecksolutions in Canada, who have a lead time of at least 12 - 16 weeks and become expensive when importing their parts to Europe. European sellers seem to offer only small sub panels for pedestaal or overhead, but not complete sets. Does anyone have ideas or soures for alternative MIP panels or frames or glareshields?

2.
Interfacing is some guesswork for me. I understand the switches and annunciators of the main panel can be "dumb", since PSX does all the logic and sequences which follwo when one sets a switch etc. As I see it, the main panel contains just buttons, rotary switches and annunciator lights, and as fas as my knowledge goes, it should be possible to interface them with PSX by using simple I/O cards, which read an output from PSX, say a warning light, and direct it to the main panel, or read a switch position from the main panel and report it to PSX which reacts accordingly.

If I am right, can I use a typical USB I/O interface such as Leo Bodnar for this purpose? Or is it that all these signals come through TCP/IP and have to be "translated" by a special interface? Why, then, are many concerned with scripts, SIOC etc? Do I really need those ( I don't want to realize moving gauges, motorized throttles etc.).

I would be very grateful if someone could clarify these things or give recommenations for vendors etc.

Happy landings,

Klaus

[kiek]

As I see it, the main panel contains just buttons, rotary switches and annunciator lights, and as fas as my knowledge goes, it should be possible to interface them with PSX by using simple I/O cards ...

Partly right, you can indeed use simple I/O cards, such as Opencockpits Master Cards. However, you need a translation to the (TCP/IP based) network protocol of PSX, see further down.

If I am right, can I use a typical USB I/O interface such as Leo Bodnar for this purpose?

No, "with these buttons on joystick" cards you can only assign just a few (control) functions provided at the PSX instructor page for USB devices. You cannnot drive leds with it.

Or is it that all these signals come through TCP/IP and have to be "translated" by a special interface? 

Indeed. For Opencockpits IO cards, programmed with SIOC, this interface is already available via my  PSXseecon program.
Adding a switch or a led is very simple. It is only a matter of writing a line of SIOC code. Many examples are already available.

Rgrds,
Nico Kaan

[KaiTak]

Hi Nico,

Thanks for clarifying basic questions that need to be answered before going any further. Do you know whether OC IO cards are protected against short circuits when driving a led? That's why I would prefer to use USB IO cards with a led driver card.

Regards,
Klaus

[kiek]

Hi Klaus,

Don't know. You should always put a resistor in series with a led.

I've done that now for about 10 years (starting in my LevelD-767 home cockpit) and never have had any problems. USB ports do not deliver enough current. You need to attach +5V and GND to an Opencockpits Mastercard if you want to connect lots of leds and 7 segment digits.

Also note that it is Software that makes the difference. First you should find software that is able to communicate with PSX. And then you use the hardware that comes with the software. IO cards are technically speaking very simple. They do not bring you the advantage.

My PSXseecon program is an example of suitable software. If you want to use it, you have to use Opencockpits IO cards.

I  don't work for OC and I have no shares, but in my opion, based on 10 years experience, these cards are rock stable. I never had any hardware problems. It is also nice that they are not expensive and that the SIOC programming system is free.

Nico

[KaiTak]

Hi Nico,

Thanks so much for the advice. I found the website of OC very promising and reasonably priced.

Is it correct that the USB expansion card is connected to the machine running PSX, a master card attached to it and by SIOC and PSXSeecon, the connection between TCP/IP and the pfysical switches is made, i. e. no direct connection to the RJ45 network socket?

Regards,
Klaus

[kiek]

Is it correct that the USB expansion card is connected to the machine running PSX...

The USB expansion card must be connected to the PC running SIOC (not necessarily the one running PSX).

You could for instance have a Mac running PSX and a PC running SIOC and PSXseecon. Or a PC running PSX and another PC running SIOC, and PSXseecon at one of the two.

by SIOC and PSXSeecon, the connection between TCP/IP and the pfysical switches is made, i. e. no direct connection to the RJ45 network socket?

Indeed.

Rgrds,
Nico

[KaiTak]

Hi Nico,

Thanx a lot. I think this is the way to go.

I wonder how the other users here have realized their panel hardware-wise.

Best regards,

Klaus

[kiek]

I wonder how the other users here have realized their panel hardware-wise.

That would be interesting indeed.

My guess is that say 90% - 95% of the Forum members do not have any special hardware other then Yoke's, Throttle's and Pedals (some also may have MCP's and or FMC's). They are PC oriented (mouse/keyboard or touch screen) pilots that want to fly, not build cockpits.

Say 10-15? use PSXseecon. Two of them are heavy users, with almost complete cockpits.

A few people use the much more expensive panels of FlightDeck Solutions.

Some use Arduino controlled hardware panels.

EDIT: and even a few people use real 747 panels...

Nico

[KaiTak]

Yes, Nico, as I wrote at the start of this thread, Flightdecksolutions seems to be the only vendor selling a complete panel. Given the degree of reality of Hardy's panels, I wonder whether it would be an alternative to use 2 or 3 LCDs for the main panel (plus CDU, Pedestal, Overhead), attach a sort of glareshield with a real MCP on top and place this in front of a projection screen. This way, one can invest more money into throttle and yoke. The only thing that is missing is real tactile switches on the main panel. Maybe one could place the gear leaver just between 2 21:9 monitors painting their frames with the brown-golden 747 panel colour. Just flying with a PC is lacking total immersion, that's why I gave up pc-flying. I could spend some hours in the LH 747 full-flight simulator. Though the visuals are rudimentary at best, I did not miss anything. Since this time, I made up my mind flying a immersive cockpit environment with a software like PSX or not at all.

Regards,

Klaus

[cavaricooper]

Klaus-

Our very own Peter has taken much the same approach. Should you spend some time with his videos in the Tutorial section of this site (which I strongly advocate you do), you will get a peek into his touch panel setup at the start of each video.

Best- C

[Gary Oliver]

Remember that Real 747 parts are becoming a lot more affordable.

Most of my sim is real parts with FDS filling in the blanks.

There are some pictures at www.simfest.co.uk

Cheers
Gary

[farrokh747]

Hi Klaus -

Im using Simstack cards from http://www.simulatorsolutions.com.au - very handy for controlling OEM parts and panels.... Switches, Lights, encoders, displays, and coming soon -ARINC as well

best,

Farrokh

[Britjet]

I still think my setup allows for maximum flexibility, assuming you don't want to fly an airliner forever.  Touch screens work very well in PSX provided you have enough connections on your GPU. I have a 970 and a 770 which easily gives me the ability to have six touch screens (overhead, pedestal, forward pedestal, and three screens making up the front fascia ( I have the outside two in landscape mode and the middle one in portrait).
Flight controls for me are the Warthog setup -(controls switched so joystick is central and throttles to the right) and Saitek pedals.
This way I can fly PSX or an Airbus, although I have yet to make more than one touch screen work in P3D.
It's a cheap and nasty setup but it works for me.

Peter

[KaiTak]

Hi Peter, Farrokh, Gary and Cavaricooper,

Thanks so much for your inspiring suggestions and hints. One of the first things I will do is to watch Peter's setup with screens. Although I think nothing is as good as the real thing, I realize simpit building requires a lot of planning and thinking ahead, bearing the restricitons and limits (spatial and finacial) in mind. I have a large cellar room, however, it is used as our home cinema as well. My idea was to use the projection screen and projector already installed to good effect for the visuals and "just" add a panel, pedestal etc., maybe with some improvised cockpit windows to increase spatial perception. But given the limited space, the whole thing should be movable on wheels if possible, so I have to start with a floor base first etc.
I have heard of simstack solutions which sound very versatile when used with real 747 parts. I start looking regularly for those parts and see what will be offered, but I do not have sufficient time to spend on building, otherwise I will never fly but remain grounded forever.
So once I have decided on the basic setup regarding location and probably mobility, I think will either use the FDS approach or Peter's approach and see how I can enlarge the simpit in the future.
Let's see how things develop in the future.
Best regards,
Klaus

[Britjet]

Here's a picture of my set up - I can't imagine it would work for you - but gives you an idea.

Peter
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63023431/Britjet%20cockpit.jpeg

[KaiTak]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the picture. Your curved screen looks marvellous, but you're right, it takes up lots of space.

As for the panels, the look quite realistic the only thing which distracts are the bezels between the monitors. Have you chosen the size of the monitors such that they are the original size of the main panel (about 1600 mm)? I consider using two 21:9 monitors instead of three 16:9 ones landscape - portrait - landscape, but your arrangements allows for placing the bezels so that they do not disturb any displays of the main panel.
I am sure the degree of immersion of your sim is very high.
Best,
Klaus

[Britjet]

Hi Klaus

The monitors are all 27-inch - and as such give a reduced-scale display - but only slightly so. I got monitors with small bezel edges but it is of course still noticeable. I found that with the landscape\portrait\landscape configuration that the bezels occurred where nothing much was going on in the panels themselves (for PSX).
The immersion is indeed very good!
Peter

[KaiTak]

Yes Peter, indeed, the onlyl prob is the bezels, but the arrangement you made is pretty much what I had in mind in case I wouldn't go for a real physical main panel.
The decision making process is not finished yet.
Regards,
Klaus

[asboyd]

Some of us have used a combination of open cockpit modules (eg FMC, EFIS units, etc) and some home made units.
Open cockpits now can supply 747 panels already for backlighting and hardware.I am in the process of making my own panels to suit the PSX model so what you see on screen is what you see in my cockpit. So full ACP's, etc.
The fun part is trying to find the correct types of switches or making them as one off, especially for things like rudder trim...others have already supplied pictures of their projects, I have only just acquired a room for the purpose of assembling the cockpit... so the fun work now begins...

Enjoy PSX it will give you years of enjoyment and skill building.

Alex B

[emerydc8]

That is an interesting fuselage, Peter. What material did you use for this? I like the projectors too!

Alex, have you found a source for the cockpit knobs/switches for the display source, CRT, EIU, and FMC (under the glare)? All I could find on Open Cockpits was the gray 737-type switches. I presume their 8-position switch can be used for all the above but didn't see the knobs?

Jon D.