Plan for PSX update 10.0.9

[emerydc8]

<chime>
It will indeed stop at flap placard speed -5.
<chime off>
Peter

In PSX too.

I know. He just dug his heels in on this one and refused to be convinced. Aside from that, his manual is pretty good.

[Hardy Heinlin]

I heard of this story in the 1990s. Perhaps it was a myth -- or really true ... until a further FMC update in the late 1990s.

[emerydc8]

One of the few times you would see THR REF where the throttles are actually controlling the speed.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Remember, you can engage THR REF on the MCP for ALT, V/S and G/S modes. I guess this is designed for the case when you need as much power as possible in a busy moment while you don't want to care about speed limits.

[emerydc8]

Yes, but Peter says it will make the wings fall off if you touch that button.

[Britjet]

I'm in the sim tomorrow and - can't promise any, but will try to do some of the following..

1) check FLCH on ground doesn't engage auto throttle.
2) check for TOGA activation on ground with flaps up.
3) check for Amber band on take-off
4) check if push of HDG SEL on vectors SID causes first fix to become active.
5) check balance indication in 45 degree bank turn
6) check bank limit at near VMO in Auto
7) check VNAV ALT to VNAV PTH by ALTSEL press rather than exiting VNAV mode.
fly VNAV profile with return via extended CF for change CLB to CRZ etc
9) check THR REF on a go-around respects flap limits.
10) check A/T behavior when engaged for manual landing
11) check for LNAV/VNAV with 2 engines failed.

Peter

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Peter,

thanks! You can disregard 1) and 2) as you tested those already, and I already made some modifications in the last updates according to your test results.


|-|ardy

[emerydc8]

Hi Peter,

I don't know if we've determined this in a prior post, but could you advance the thrust levers while in a FLCH climb and see if they go to HOLD. I think they will, and maybe we already decided this was the case, but I can't find the post now. Thanks for testing all this stuff. Cheers.

Jon D.

[Britjet]

OK.
Will do Jon. Hardy - I would just like to confirm 1) and 2) if I get chance..

Peter

[Hardy Heinlin]

When you're trying to confirm 1) you could use a setup that will answer some further questions in the same moment; here's a suggestion:

Instead of G/S engage V/S for landing; check if SPD automatically blanks upon touchdown. If SPD remains engaged on the ground, engage FLCH. FLCH will do one of these actions:

a) As FLCH engagement on the ground has no A/T mode effect, SPD remains engaged (incompatible with FLCH)

b) It changes to HOLD

c) It changes to THR

d) It disconnects the A/T


Thanks!

|-|ardy

[Britjet]

Ok Hardy. Can't promise on that one - I need to demo an ILS really. We'll see.
Peter

[Britjet]

1) check FLCH on ground doesn't engage auto throttle.
2) check for TOGA activation on ground with flaps up.
3) check for Amber band on take-off
4) check if push of HDG SEL on vectors SID causes first fix to become active.
5) check balance indication in 45 degree bank turn
6) check bank limit at near VMO in Auto
7) check VNAV ALT to VNAV PTH by ALTSEL press rather than exiting VNAV mode.
fly VNAV profile with return via extended CF for change CLB to CRZ etc
9) check THR REF on a go-around respects flap limits.
10) check A/T behavior when engaged for manual landing
11) check for LNAV/VNAV with 2 engines failed.

1) ready for normal departure on runway with engines running. Pressing FLCH had no effect. No light either.
2) no TOGA  effect. I will try this again with various flap settings on a later sim detail.
3) there is no Amber band.
4) pushing HDG SEL on a vectors SID (Kennedy 3 with MERIT) does not remove the Vector line on the NAV display or change the legs page.
5) 45 degree turn with no rudder (actually up to 65) . Balance stayed exactly central with no rudder needed.
6) Bank limit near VMO is 15 degrees in AUTO. I will try in a later detail to see how it tapers off..
7) not tested. Another time.
ditto.
9) ditto
10) ditto
11) LNAV and VNAV do function correctly with two engines inoperative.

Peter

[Hardy Heinlin]

6) check bank limit at near VMO in Auto

To be exact, bank limit should be 25° at 332 KTAS, and 15° at 381 KTAS. And interpolated in between.

You need to look at the TAS on the ND or FMC.


|-|ardy

[emerydc8]

Hi, Peter,

I know you had some instructing to do while in the sim, so I am impressed that you even got to test all that you did. Did you happen to see if the A/T FMA goes to HOLD when you manually advance the throttles during a FLCH climb? I understand if you didn't get to it. Cheers.

Jon D.

[Britjet]

Hi John,

I didn't forget, but as I advanced the lever it captured the altitude so that was the last chance I got!
Next time hopefully..
Peter

[emerydc8]

Thanks, Peter. I'm pretty sure it will go to HOLD if you advance the throttles during a FLCH climb.

[ScudRunner]

Hello Hardy,

a pure wishlist item for your consideration. May I preface this by saying that what I am about to ask might already be achievable in the current PSX - and I simply cannot work out how to do it!

I am attempting to simulate approaches down to the DH with the possibility of a go-around or continued approach depending on what visibility I have when I get to that point on each approach.

Currently, when I set the cloud base at the DH for a particular approach I will (unless mistaken), always break visual at that exact DH.  Similarly, if I set a specific visibility I will always have that exact visibility every time I fly the approach.

I can of course alter these values in the weather settings myself - but then I know what to expect when I fly the next approach.

Would it be feasible to introduce some `randomness' into the cloud base or visibility so that when you fly such an approach you do not know whether to expect a DH go-around or whether you will be able to continue the approach.  IMHO it would be good training in terms of the decision making at a critical time of flight.

As I said, a wishlist request only. Thanks for your consideration of it.

cheers
Scud.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Scud,

you could click on the Randomize button. Did you try this?


Cheers,

|-|ardy

[ScudRunner]

Hi Hardy. Yep that was the first thing I tried of course.

I was not meaning a global randomisation of all the variables per that method. I just wanted to introduce a probability that for the same low-vis conditions I may or may not have to execute a missed approach.

I had tried varying the lower cloud layer coverage hoping it might give some randomness to when I break out but it does not.  From 1/8 through to 8/8 coverage set I have zero visibility until I come out the bottom of the programmed cloud layer.

Not a problem anyway - please disregard!
-----------

EDIT:- What I was assuming was that the cloud coverage setting (from 1/8 to 8/8) might have some effect on the outside view. I now understand that all cloud layers are `solid' in terms of how they effect visibility.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Scud,

maybe in a later update. This requires more buttons and thus a more complicated weather page layout ...


Cheers,

|-|ardy