PSXAloft II : new upper wind and turbulence simulation for PSX

[G-CIVA]

Derek,

There is another way to 'do this' - I was initially a sceptic about using this programme as I do not like locking in a fixed set of wind data that is set to one single set of downloaded data from ActiveSky.

As you will see I use PSXAloft in conjunction with PFPX & ActiveSky in a simpler way, there is a more realistic 'connection & interface' between the three of them & the result - although requiring more work on my part this 'connection & interface' is probably more realistic...

It is simpler but I suspect we have all been 'spoilt' by the technology that now enables WIND UPLINK into the FMS.

Plan your flight with PFPX using the real world WX data source; it will be able to forecast with great accuracy what the upper winds will be doing up to 18 - 20 hours later.

Depending on your flightplan format PFPX will produce a Waypoint Wind Data Block; this can be used to manually enter the CRZ winds where applicable into the FMS during the pre flight process.  Remember that in the days before all of the data connectivity this was the 744 crews bread & butter, at times not all of the data was entered prior to take off, sometimes not all of the flightplan was entered even.

But they had a good flightplan, & they had a good fuel figure, the rest they sorted out once settled in the cruise.

Run ActiveSky in real time mode (download interval set to 5 minutes) in conjunction with PSXAloft in dynamic mode.

That is it.

ActiveSky will happily run & will do a surprisingly good job of recreating what PFPX predicts at the CRZ levels - even 12 hours later (something like 144 WX downloads later - remember ASN creates instantaneous weather PFPX predicts forecast weather).  You would have to keep recreating ASN flightplan files to get anywhere near the accuracy I am getting.

PSXAloft does a fantastic job of then 'pushing this data' into PSX.  Thanks JP!

That said the accuracy is within 5-10% all the time with the odd anomaly very occasionally.

I don't spend an hour at the gate slavishly entering CRZ Wind/Temp entries for every WPT & FL before the push either!  Just enough to get the flight moving, after passing F100 it normally takes less than 10-20 mins & its done & dusted ... PFPX will also give DES FORECAST WINDs that are pretty close too.

The key here is that both PFPX & ActiveSky are using their real world sources for their data & that nothing is 'fixed' so to speak. 

Best

[Britjet]

I like the look of this method. I was never a great fan of wind uplinks..it may have been our system at fault but I often found it didn't populate the FMC columns very well, often ignoring columns where it felt that the aircraft shouldn't be eg too high or low.
One thing we had as a "culture" (and I have no idea why it worked, but it did), was to just input the initial cruise altitude (eg FL330) and no other, and then just insert the winds into that line from the THIRD wind column on our flight plan, regardless of what level it quoted.
Then we would climb as suggested on the plan, or as on the FMC if that looked better. It was always important to input the top of descent wind accurately.
It always worked extremely well, the fuel would typically change by no more than a tonne all flight. Someone with a much larger brain than I explained it to me once but had to go and lie down in a darkened room halfway through the explanation!
Of course this may have been something to do with the BA forecast system and how Honeywell programmed the FMC winds - I don't know..
Just for interest :-)

Peter

[Britjet]

You don't need to put all the winds in, just where they change significantly. It is also important to put in OAT at a level as you go along, as it can have a significant effect on Mach No and hence fuel...

[G-CIVA]

You don't need to put all the winds in, just where they change significantly. It is also important to put in OAT at a level as you go along, as it can have a significant effect on Mach No and hence fuel...

Peter,

Thanks for your comments ... I probably did not emphasize this point nearly as much as I should have - I don't spend hours slavishly entering four wind entries per waypoint on the flightplan! ... as a rule of thumb for me I enter data where it changes by a factor of circa +/-10 degrees/+/-10 knots, or by a factor of +/-3 degrees Celcius.

Cheers Steve

[J D ADAM]

Thank you yet again for your help.

Regards
Derek

[evaamo]

Thank you Steve and Peter for the insightful replies!
I will certainly try your methods later today.

I had the idea ASN was able to forecast Winds Aloft when used together with PFPX, not just current-conditions snapshots. On the other hand, unless you use VisualPSX, I find a 5-minute frequency setting in ASN for downloading new wx data as overkill, since Winds Aloft information is only refreshed every 6 hours by the weather sources ASN uses.   

cheers!
-E

[G-CIVA]

I had the idea ASN was able to forecast Winds Aloft when used together with PFPX, not just current-conditions snapshots. On the other hand, unless you use VisualPSX, I find a 5-minute frequency setting in ASN for downloading new wx data as overkill, since Winds Aloft information is only refreshed every 6 hours by the weather sources ASN uses.

This is where the confusion begins ... ASN is a real world weather simulator or to put it another way it is a world weather generator.  It is just doing that.  It is not forecasting anything.

Allowing ASN to download at the most frequent interval gives your scenery generator the most realistic WX picture i.e. the visual simulation you are looking for, plus the closest upper wind picture above F200, for PSX to use.  This 'blended' weather picture is fed into PSX by PSXAloft II giving us a constantly updated simulation of what is happening anywhere on the planet in realtime.

PFPX actually downloads the real world WX information much more regularly than every 6 hours - to take into account the changing situation nearer ground level.

It is true that the upper wind data it uses is only updated every 6 hours.

I often think people overthink this relationship too much.  With a little bit of finger typing before you depart with PFPX you can have a really accurate fuel figure at the gate, a few more entries in in the FMS before the push & Bobs your uncle you might surprise yourself with a decent result at the other end.

[evaamo]

Hi Steve, after reading this thread (http://www.avsim.com/topic/442471-asn-and-pfpx-winds-aloft/?p=3017879) it seems you're mostly correct: ASN does not export forecasted Winds Aloft information to flight planners such as PFPX, but it does, however, export forecasted Winds to add-ons such as PMDG's 777 and internally to its own Flight Plan Briefing. This is confirmed by one of the ASN developers in that thread.

This last part is interesting, because I usually compare the values ASN shows in it's user interface ("briefing") to what is included in the PFPX-generated flight plan (using ASN as Weather source), and there are usually discrepancies. Now I know why!.

So I guess the workflow you mentioned above is the best solution, use PFPX server subscription for weather and then PSXAloft in dynamic mode to obtain better results.

I'm a PSXAloft "static mode" user myself, mostly due to the fact that I use PSX as a standalone sim when I travel, I wonder if it's possible for JP to add functionality to his awesome program that would refresh (read the activeflightplan file) every 15-30 minutes or so to keep the Winds up-to-date.

Cheers
-E

[G-CIVA]

The solution in your case is to 'refresh' this weather picture regularly, I suspect this will need to be carried out manually by the user, as it will involve the creation & export of files from one system to another.

What we really need is the ability to create a wind uplink file DIRECTLY from PFPX ... that we can then directly exprt to PFPX just like we do for our flight plans ...that is the nirvana, in my opinion.

PFPX is already able to create such wx files for simulations like the PMDG 777, I guess its just a matter of getting the PSX format correct so that it can be created in an 'exportable format' by PFPX.

Doug Snow can you hear us? 

[JP59]

Hi Guys,

Very interesting informations.

I'm a PSXAloft "static mode" user myself, mostly due to the fact that I use PSX as a standalone sim when I travel, I wonder if it's possible for JP to add functionality to his awesome program that would refresh (read the activeflightplan file) every 15-30 minutes or so to keep the Winds up-to-date.

In static mode, the acitveflightplan file is read overhead every overflew WPT, so if a new file has been generated by ASN, PSXAloft takes data from this new file.

PFPX is already able to create such wx files for simulations like the PMDG 777, I guess its just a matter of getting the PSX format correct so that it can be created in an 'exportable format' by PFPX.

That's a good idea ! I'll have a look at the .wx file generated for the PMDG 777 and see if I can use this file to feed PSX FMC via PSXAloft.

Edit : After a quick look at the .wx file generated, it looks like easy to inject data from this file in PSX FMC using PSXAloft. The user will have to export the route to a "dummy" PMDG folder (like My Documents\PMDG WX) with PFPX, and then point this file using a browse option in PSXAloft. I could make it available in the next update. What do you think ?

Cheers,

[G-CIVA]

That's a good idea ! I'll have a look at the .wx file generated for the PMDG 777 and see if I can use this file to feed PSX FMC via PSXAloft.

If you can find a way to achieve this; or speak to Christian the developer of PFPX & collaborate to enable PFPX to create the type of WX file PSX needs for the WX uplink you will have 'cracked it'!

Best

Steve

[JP59]

I don't think it will be necessary to ask for a specific PSX file, because all the data is already available in the PMDG 777 file. PSXAloft can cast these data to PSX format.

Cheers,

[cavaricooper]

JP-

That will indeed be the icing on the cake!  The issue with the 777 file is that some may not have that a/c (I suppose a fictitious folder could be created for PFPX output... however...) Christian is very cooperative with developers, and Hardy already has a working relationship with him.  He and Judith were on vacation, however, they ought to be back now (or else very soon).

Eagerly awaiting your next release!

Best- C

[JP59]

Hi Carl,

I don't have the PMDG 777 myself but I exported the file in a "dummy" folder. It took me 30 seconds...

I'll start working on the new update ASAP.

Cheers,

[Michael Benson]

Hi Jean-philippe,

I don't want to step on your toes, but as part of PSXNet we've already written something that reads the PFPX 777 wind output and injects it into the PSX Wind Page.  I think Mark was hoping to release the initial version at some point this week.

By all means go ahead and do your own version, I just wanted to give you the option to save you some work!

[CarlBB]

Hi Carl,

I don't have the PMDG 777 myself but I exported the file in a "dummy" folder. It took me 30 seconds...

I'll start working on the new update ASAP.

Cheers,

If I understood correctly, this sounds amazing!

Thanks and good luck with next update 

Carl

[JP59]

Hi Jean-philippe,

I don't want to step on your toes, but as part of PSXNet we've already written something that reads the PFPX 777 wind output and injects it into the PSX Wind Page.  I think Mark was hoping to release the initial version at some point this week.

By all means go ahead and do your own version, I just wanted to give you the option to save you some work!

No problem. I had the same idea of an integrated suite : PSXTools. I'm working on it since a couple of months. We really should work together

Good luck for the release. Your add on looks like great. Congrats

[Gary Oliver]

Jp,

The last time the French and British collaborated they created Concorde... Is that something we can live up to?

Thanks
Gary

[JP59]

The last time the French and British collaborated they created Concorde... Is that something we can live up to?

That's true Gary. Don't forget the  channel tunel. Very nice examples of what our two countries can do together...

With friendly regards,

[JRBarrett]

I just tried the latest version of PSX Aloft while linked to P3D 3.2 via Visual PSX, and using the latest version 5919 of ASN. It worked very well indeed! I ran it in dynamic mode, and my enroute winds and temps were a very close match to the forecast generated by PFPX.

Although I used dynamic mode, I did load my PFPX flight plan into ASN, and pointed PSX Aloft to the ASN activeweather file. Doing this permitted using the FMS wind uplink feature, which also worked perfectly. I have ASN set to download new weather at 15 minute intervals, and the activeweather file was updated with each new download.

The one thing that did not seem to work was attempting an import of descent winds in the FMS. If I requested a descent winds uplink, the "send" and "receive" functions worked OK - and after a few moments, I saw a message that the uplink was ready to load, but the fields on the descent page never populated after pressing "load".

Am I missing something, or is this feature not supported? It occurred to me later that I may have to specify altitudes on the left side of the descent forecast page before requesting a forecast uplink, but I am away from my computer (and PSX manual) today, so cannot verify. I do realize that although the ASN activeweather file contains current winds for multiple levels, that PSX Aloft only injects winds and temps at or above FL200, with the default PSX weather taking over at lower altitudes.

(I did checkmark the TOC and TOD boxes in the ASN flight plan import page).