KLM flight

[Jeroen D]

Yesterday I flew back from Amsterdam the Netherlands to Delhi, India with KLM.

KLM uses both the 777 as well as 744 on this route. Yesterday we got the 744.

We were taxing out onto the runway, braked and came to a fullstop. The captain came on the PA to announce, "cabin crew take off positions". About 15 seconds later the plane started to move again, but it was clear we were not going to take off. We vacated the runway, parked somewhere and the captain announced they had a small technical problem they needed to fix.

After about five minutes, he announced they managed to get it fixed. Back to the runway, took off and an uneventfull flight to Delhi.

There was only some 15 seconds between the announcement 'cabin crew take off positions' and the plane being taxied of the runway. They never run the engines up, so something must have popped up just before they were ready to commence their take off run.

Jeroen

[Balt]

Even though they were current with PSX 10.0.2 installed pre takeoff briefing, when they hit the runway and started RealTraffic, it told them an update was available.

:-)

- Balt

[John H Watson]

Not much information to go on. As the aircraft was under its own power, the pilots were on their own (so to speak) and would have needed to use the Quick Reference Handbook for fault diagnosis*. Once the actions have been carried out, they are allowed to continue (assuming the actions are not too serious... like engine shutdown   )
I suppose this area is rather "grey" in some circumstances. The pilots need to use their experience and judgement as to whether they should return to the gate or continue.

Rgds
JHW


*Sometimes the pilots call Engineering and they may advise to cycle circuit breakers (depending on the system). e.g. the Left GPS suddenly loses data. The respective MMR CB might be cycled under the advice of Maintenance. The GPS requires a certain amount of time to reacquire the satellites. If the GPS comes back online, is the system serviceable? Grey area. More and more systems are becoming computerised and sometimes power resets do completely fix problems. However, it would be wise to enter this event into the Technical Log, so that Engineering can follow the history of the problem (should it happen again). They can also run Ground Tests via the CMC (when the aircraft arrives in India    ). Note that there are two GPSs. This should help the pilots make a decision as to whether to continue or not.

[Grebleem]

There is no call: "cabin crew take off positions". It must have been "Cabin Crew, Take your seats". That is the call given by the pilot monitoring after receiving the 'Cabin Ready message'. I think there was a Status message popping up (or the missed it ;-) before) or something else and they did a reset or consulted the MEL and decided to go.

Cheers,
Bastiaan

[Jeroen D]

There is no call: "cabin crew take off positions".

Yes, there was. This is the call out they made. I remember it distinctly for two reasons.

Firstly, the call was made 'late' whilst we were already on the runway, ligned up for take off. Usually its made much earlier, if anything long before turning on the active runway. Secondly, it wasn't the standard call out.

As John pointed out, there is really not much to go on, we can only guess. So for me there are two scenario's. As I said earlier about 15 seconds after the PA call the plane started taxing to the nearest exit, which was close by. So, based on the PA call, everything was fine up in the cockpit and something popped up on their screen more or less immediately after the PA call and they more or less immediately decided not to take off, but to vacate the runway and investigate/trouble shoot.

The other scenario is that they were having some issues during the taxi out to the runway. Kept them busy, they thought they were on the way of solving it, left the PA call a bit late, but as they found themselves on the runway in take off position they still hadn't solved whatever it was they were trying to solve. So they more or less immediately decided to vacate and troubleshoot at a parking place.

Anyway, just speculation. But the PA call was definitely very late and not the standard call out. Very unusual for KLM. I fly with them all the time and have accumulated a billion zillion air miles with them. Never heard a non standard call out before.

Over the years I've been in a few 'odd' situations with various carriers, but never with KLM. I have logged the most Go Arounds though flying with KLM. Hardly their fault, blame weather at Delhi Airport. In the last three years alone, I've had three Go Arounds at Delhi. (to be precise as a passenger, as a pilot on my little planes I've logged more GAs)

The main reason for flying them is ofcourse the little porcelain houses, filled with jenever (gin). See http://www.klm.com/travel/in_en/prepare_for_travel/on_board/travel_classes/klmhouses.htm

These day with handy app on your smart phone to keep track of your collection, missing houses and duplicates! Never a dull moment on these long hauls

Jeroen

[Grebleem]

What I ment, the call "cabin crew take off positions" has no meaning and therefore not used (it is not in any of the KLM books, FCOM, FSSM). Was the "Take your seats call" already given?
What happens a often, with short taxi times, is that the Cabin is not ready and if there is no one on final ATC clears you to line up an wait. The wait is now for the cabin ready with the airplane on the runway. After the Cabin ready is received, the "Take your seats call" is given en the T/O starts shortly thereafter.

Cheers,
Bastiaan

[Jeroen D]

What I ment, the call "cabin crew take off positions" has no meaning and therefore not used (it is not in any of the KLM books, FCOM, FSSM). Was the "Take your seats call" already given?

NO, not as far as I recall, that's why I specifically noticed and unfamilar announcement

What happens a often, with short taxi times, is that the Cabin is not ready and if there is no one on final ATC clears you to line up an wait. The wait is now for the cabin ready with the airplane on the runway. After the Cabin ready is received, the "Take your seats call" is given en the T/O starts shortly thereafter.

We taxied for about 10 minutes.

I'm flying KLM again next week, see what happens then!

Jeroen

[Hardy Heinlin]

I think the pilot had a lot of tasks to do and difficult decisions to make within a very short time frame; under these conditions it simply may happen that a human being inadvertently says "takeoff positions" instead of "take your seats".


|-|ardy

[Jeroen D]

I think the pilot had a lot of tasks to do and difficult decisions to make within a very short time frame; under these conditions it simply may happen that a human being inadvertently says "takeoff positions" instead of "take your seats".

That's my thinking too, but we will probably never know unless I bump into that crew somewhere here in Delhi.

Jeroen

[martin]

May be "cabin crew take off positions" is a different call, meaning a different thing?

Martin

[400guy]

Terminology WILL get folks into trouble!

The guy who gave me my DC6 F/E oral had been badly injured (on another airline) in a "connie" when the captain called for "take off power on four" (intending to abort a landing) and he got tale off power ON ONLY number four!