Feature Request: TDZ Lights

[tango4]

Hi Hardy,
I have found that it is sometimes a bit hard to judge the proper aimpoint, even with the help of PAPI, especially on short final when handflying the plane.
I just feel that if I could see the touchdown zone (TDZ) lights materialized it would help. I guess the 744 being a big aircraft, it only flies to airport equipped with TDZ lighting so that would make sense.
The idea would be to add a double line of lights in the TDZ part of the runway.

I don't think this would be too heavy on the CPU, but I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA if it is hard to code, so please forgive me if this is too complicated and forget it completelyif that's the case.

The more I use this sim, the more I love it. You really did a terrific job !

Cheers.

Charles

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Charles,

I'm sorry. I can't fulfill your wish.

Sorry!


Regards,

|-|ardy

[tango4]

No worries !
Thank for your fast answer as usual.

[Stephane LI]

By the way, I am curious to know why in PSX, the PAPI lights are only equipped with 2 lamps (one red and one white when on the correct slope) instead of 4 lamps (2 red 2 white). Is it a programming limitation ?
4 lamps would be more precise to correct our slope, as it indicates slightly above, or well above the slope, or slightly below, or well below the slope.

Stephane

[Hardy Heinlin]

It's because the PSX scenery is very much simplified. I keep this design style consistent for two reasons: 1. to make it clear that it is a simplification; 2. aesthetics (inconsistency looks ugly). The PAPI position is actually unknown; it can never be precise anyway. Lighting data is not in the nav database. PSX has to "autogenerate" it.


|-|ardy

[tango4]

Just to clarify things, my request was about a simplified generic TDZ.
Just something like the first xxx meters of every runway (xxx to be decided as a global PSX value) with a double row of lights instead of a simple.
The idea is to quickly get a feeling that you are making a long landing. Nothing involving a database.

Good night everyone and happy holidays !

[John H Watson]

Do all (reasonably long) runways have fixed distances between markers?

According to wiki, there are different types of markers, but no mention of different distances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runway

[Balt]

According to ICAO aerodrome standards doc section 5.3.9.6, for an instrument runway, the runway edge lights are not to exceed 60m, and for a non instrument rwy, they are not to exceed 100m. See here http://www.icao.int/safety/implementation/Library/Manual%20Aerodrome%20Stds.pdf

This nicely accommodates the metric world where 50m is common, and the U.S. where 200ft is common.

Cheers

Balt

[tango4]

Well, even if it is not 100% standard in the world, I guess it is not an issue.
You only need to decide a convention for a standard TDZ and apply it everywhere (as long as it is documented).
The idea I had in mind was just to get a small visual help for manual landing.
Anyway, don't worry if it is too much trouble Hardy, it's just Christmas wishes !

Merry Christmas to everyone here !

Charles

[cagarini]

Also, the PAPIs in PSX are more a kind of APAPIs than PAPI since I can only see two lights.

[Tom Gorzenski]

Agree. PAPI instead of APAPI would definitely be much more appreciated, since PAPI is required for all runways with precision approach, and all instrument runways with reference code 3 and 4. Also, PAPI is essential for approaches with large airplanes, and particularly - jet airplanes.

[cavaricooper]

Quite a while ago, Hardy had indicated some possibility of adding runway specific approach lighting sometime, much farther down the road.  I remain hopeful for that as well.  That, with the PAPIs and TDZ lighting would go a long way towards eliminating the need for scenery generators. As much as I love the eye candy, nothing transmits inertia and momentum feel as well as PSX solo does. 

Perhaps once his "list" gets shorter, there will be time. Hope springs eternal... Happy 2022!

Best- C

[Tom Gorzenski]

Absolutely. I will keep my fingers crossed.
All the best, Happy 2022.

[Timo]

...but keep in mind that many airports (e.g. KJFK) use VASIs instead of PAPIs.

happy new year,
Timo

[United744]

PAPIs are aligned with the ILS glideslope, broadly speaking (I mean physically on the ground). You know where the glideslope is, so you know where to put the lights.

Maybe just update the lighting so if the runway has an associated ILS it changes the lighting? From what I can tell you already have the required information to make it work.

[Hardy Heinlin]

The scenery loader just scans the runway database, not the ILS database which has the G/S position. So it would require an additional database scan and matching algorithm solely for the purpose of adding two further cosmetic dots in an already extremely simplified "dot scenery". -- I want to keep the style of the simplification consistent. As soon as one object looks 100% realistic, all other objects will look like errors. Like a photo-realistic ear on a picasso-esque face abstration. I doubt anyway that your landings will improve just because you see 4 instead of 2 dots.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

In this world, technical arguments always kill it.

A side question. If PSX would magically gain knowledge of the runway's actual configuration in great detail, down to the last approach light -- what would the impact be on the painting routine? Say, full ALSF-2 added to a runway, and then for six runways (6 directions) on the same airport?


Hoppie

[Hardy Heinlin]

Depends on the computer ...

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

I'll ask it differently. The _current_ painting routine. Does it, for example, calculate and store the exact position (lat/lon/alt) of each blip as soon as the airport gets close enough, and from then on "just" paint the whole large array of lights from coordinates in memory? Or are there code shortcuts, such as a line of blips being reduced to begin and end point, and the code interpolating, to save on memory at the expense of lines of code?

If it is flat from-memory painting, then a future extension could possibly load up the airport blip map from a file and then users could load up their machine to whatever they tolerate.

It would of course need special blips for the rabbit and the VASI/PAPI.

Hoppie

[Hardy Heinlin]

There are no dotted lines. Each spot is actually a filled square with individual, distance related size and transparency.