Wanted: Elegant mini joystick with industrial look

[Hardy Heinlin]

Dear brothers and sisters,

does anybody know where to find a stick that takes not more desktop space than a mouse and is not higher than a fist? And that isn't colored like a baby toy?

I drove a million miles and googled thousand pages, but all I found were huge fat cukes taking half of my workplace – or tiny little sticks requiring a microscope. I'm looking for something that lies in between.

(I need it only for software testing, not for actual flying. So, ergonomics are completely irrelevant.)


Cheers,

|-|ardy

[Pierre Theillere]

Hi Hardy!

I didn't find anything as small as you wanted. I have, at home, exactly what you want (some "good old" metal joysticks looking like the first 80's console gaming things... on a joystick port, with some adapters USB -> joy port) but the adapter makes them only work for Windows, so I'm using them on my eeePCs to have a mini-PS13 mobile flight deck!
I Googled a bit, and found the "Logitech Attack 3" (30€) and the "Saitek ST90" (20€)... they look like as "toys for teens" but they are cheap and may suit your needs!
Hope it helps...

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Pierre,

those are exactly what I'm not looking for :-)

It should be small and simple, like one of those joysticks on music keyboards or industrial machine controls (but not as expensive).

Thanks,

|-|ardy

[Shiv Mathur]

Very likely we might all be shooting in the dark here, but is this the sort of thing you're looking for ?;

http://www.spectronicsinoz.com/product/19681

And oh, you might want to check the tread on your tyres !

[Hardy Heinlin]

Tread checked, still OK.

Those minis look good, Shiv. Thanks. But when plugged in, the system probably thinks it's a mouse. The other problem is the price: 840 dollar.


|-|

[Jamie]

http://www.chproducts.com/oem/index.asp
maybe too big... they have a broad range of small industrial joysticks.

or http://www.zeemote.com/uk/controllers/

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

A specifically interesting CH series is this one:
http://www.chproducts.com/oem/finger_desktop_mjfj.html

[Hardy Heinlin]

Thanks!

Hm, I still have an old CH stick somewhere in the basement. They are very robust and schnickschnack-free. I think I'll just buy an USB adapter. That's it!

|-|

[Pierre Theillere]

Hi Hardy!

I guess my "good old eighties alike" sticks are also a CH Products, as they really look like the 2nd one on Hoppie's picture, but with a smaller, squared base.
For the USB -> Joystick Port adapters, I found some (got 3 or 4... LOL) at Conrad electronic online store, but they appear (as they state on the box, and confirmed by my own testing) to be only supported by Windows, and not OSX. If you happen to find any that also runs on OSX 10.6, it would be amazing!
Good luck for hardware chasing!

[Hardy Heinlin]

Hi Pierre,

I don't understand why an USB adapter shouldn't work with the Mac while an USB stick would work with the Mac. It's just a potentiometer. No electronics. Isn't it?


Cheers,

|-|ardy

[Pierre Theillere]

Hi Hardy!

Yep, I was really surprised that mine didn't work under OSX... I guess the problem is that the device wasn't recognized or detected by the system. Maybe it is because my joysticks are too old, I don't really know.
Old joysticks were just potentiometers. Maybe the USB makes some kind of analogic -> digital conversion, and / or the OS need to be told the the thing is a joystick for USB detection... I don't know!

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

You would be surprised how darned complex USB actually is. There is a LOT of electronics involved, but it is usually hidden in a custom chip with a small number of pins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus

[Hardy Heinlin]

You would be surprised how darned complex USB actually is. There is a LOT of electronics involved, but it is usually hidden in a custom chip with a small number of pins.

I know that USB is complex. But I thought I read somewhere that those joystick adapters just connect certain serial pins with certain USB pins, and that the USB controller in the computer does the rest as usual.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

That would be exceptionally complex.

You may mix up this joystick interface with the dirty trick that they play with keyboards and mice. For a long time (and possibly still today), these devices come with a double-use plug. It looks like either a PS/2 connector or a USB connector, and there is a very simple conversion plug included to swap the plug. You can decide for yourself whether to use your computer's PS/2 connectors if they are available, and the USB otherwise.

The dirty trick is that these devices (keyboard, mouse) are internally equipped with full USB and full PS/2 electronics. Depending on what they see happening on their connector, they switch. The native PS/2 protocol is two orders of magnitude less complex than USB, so if you have a USB-capable device, it can easily generate PS/2 on top.

However for analog joy sticks, this trick will not work. They do not even send serial commands, it is pure direct potmeter and switch connections that go to the D15. Either they do full USB and have a direct mode on top, or they don't even bother and are either analog or USB.


Jeroen

[Hardy Heinlin]

Yes, but it's strange that the adapters work on Windows but not on the Mac.

This is the common USB class for keyboards, mice and joysticks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Human_Interface_Device_class

Windows as well as the Mac can read the output of any USB mouse.
Windows as well as the Mac can read the output of any USB joystick.
So why can only Windows read the output of the USB joystick adapter? If Windows sees the adapter as a real USB joystick, why will the Mac not see it so as well?

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

It may be that the basic joystick works, but that the numerous wild extensions in buttons, levers, hats, four-way switches etc. always require native drivers.

Another option is that the game port to USB convertors are not going all the way and do not produce a HID USB device. They just do what is needed to get the analog signals into the USB bus, and need a device driver to create a virtual HID.

The game market is Windows, so just for Windows is sufficient, I guess.

[cavaricooper]

BTW the mini (finger) controllers interested me and I called CH- $250 + shipping............hmmmmmmmm

Carl

[dvincent]

Hello Hardy,

perhaps these are too small for your needs but good for electronics hacking's ideas:

http://www.suregripcontrols.com/PDF/550.0042-Micro%20Joystick%20Specifications.pdf

http://www.interlinkelectronics.com/force_sensors/products/integratedmouse/microjoystick.html?specs=1

Best Regards

[dvincent]

i think these are less small



http://www.directindustry.fr/prod/apem/joystick-7593-236128.html

hh

[dvincent]

interesting these also

http://www.feteriscomponents.com/fr/fr-typeoverzicht-joystick.htm

http://www.hellopro.fr/Joysticks-a-effet-hall-serie-try20-1001253-194454-produit.html

try googling as "micro joystick" you'll open Ali Baba's cavern !
manipulating the world with less ATPs/more pleasure, is this the best human's dream ?

All of the best
hh