ATIS through ACARS

[duick]

Hello,

I have a question concerning ATIS messages that come through ACARS.
Is it intentional that these ATIS messages do not contain infos about runways in use and transition level ? For instance last night I was on a descent to LIRF. The normal ATIS through the radios was complete with runway info and transition level. But the ACARS ATIS did not show these infos.

Thanks, Duick

[JP59]

With ACARS you download METAR, not ATIS. These two messages are very different.

[duick]

Hello Jean-Philippe,

thank you for your answer. You are right, so it is written at page 177 of the manual and the behaviour of the PSX is according to it.
But in the former version of the Aerowinx Simulator (PS1.3) you received ATIS messages (with runway information and Transition Level) on ATIS request through ACARS (you asked for ATIS and received ATIS - at page 81 of the operations manual of PS1.3 is an example of this).

So I thought it should be possible to receive complete ATIS information through ACARS ATIS request in PSX too. At the moment there is no ATIS information, only METAR information. Hence the title of the ACARS ATIS request page of the PSX could also be ACARS METAR request page because there is no ATIS.

It was helpful to have the ATIS in written form, because sometimes the voice ATIS is difficult to understand.

So my question better should be - what is the reason for this change from PS1.3 version to PSX ?

Regards, Duick

[John H Watson]

Perhaps if we ask Hardy nicely, he will provide a future update for ACARS options?  :mrgreen:

My old airline had a number of options on the weather page, although I couldn't tell you what details each selection provided:

ACARS-WXR REQUESTS
ACTUAL
<- - - - / - - - - / - - - -
TAFOR
<- - - - / - - - - / - - - -
ATIS
<- - - - / - - - - / - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
..............................................SEND
< RETURN

Rgds
JHW

[Hardy Heinlin]

In PS1, the ACARS ATIS reports were phantasy-world-generated texts built of METAR standard shortcuts and fictitious "runway in use/transition level" messages.

I never saw "runway in use/transition level" data in real-world METARs. Who would provide this service, world-wide? The title on the ACARS page did read "ATIS & TAF", but that real-world ACARS software provides just lists of "METAR & TAF" texts, as far as I recall. PSX now uses plain real-world METARs, hence no runway / TL info included.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[DougSnow]

In my recent ops ride, NRT gave a different formatted digital atis than CDG did, or FRA. There are no free digital acars solutions worldwide.

Every time our crews pull a digital atis, we pay someone...

[John Golin]

New income stream for Hardy?

[tango4]

Well, actually D-ATIS is not formatted in a standard way around the world like METARS.
I've worked a bit on CDG D-ATIS system (I'm an ATC here) trying to improve it a bit (in the limits of the system which is very old now). For that work, I asked someone at AFR to collect some D-ATIS from around the world and none of them were formatted in the same way.

So you can choose whatever formatting you like, it would be realistic. The thing is that it is not a woldwide coverage provided by a company. The airport has to be equipped with a D-ATIS facility which is then sent via ACARS. A realistic way would be if possible to put an item in the airport database saying whether the airport is equipped or not. If not, then you just have METAR. If equipped, you can add ATIS information.
Hardy if you need an example of CDG D-ATIS, I can easily get one.

And for info, even the weather info is not necessarily the same as in the METAR because a new ATIS is not published in sync with a new METAR. A new METAR is published by the weather forecast organism (METEO FRANCE in France). But we have a direct feed in the tower from METEO FRANCE server updated much more frequently than METARS. So if we decide for whatever reason to update the ATIS, it can be more current than the METAR, or less current if we forget to update it ! (no, that never happens...).

Charles

[nicolas]

With ACARS you download METAR, not ATIS. These two messages are very different.

In the pre 9/11 times I was once lucky to get into the cockpit of a 744 LH flight from Frankfurt to Hong Kong. At one point the pilot printed out a weather report (not sure if this was ATIS) from the destination airport. Is that also possible in PSX?

Nic

[Pierre Theillere]

Hello nicolas,

Of course, printing METAR via ACARS is fully possible with PSx: it's in the "requests" (you can select DEP, ARR, or any other airport via its 4-letter ICAO code), and the message can only be printed (on PSx virtual paper), and not displayed on the MCDU.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Ref. page 177, 179.

[nicolas]

Got it.Thanks!
Nic

[HercMighty]

Reading through Mike Ray's Checkride Handbook Page 275 talking about ACARS Dedicated CDU requesting ATIS (Implies that both voice and CDU will provide):

"Here is the information that will be contained in the ATIS Message:

Airport Name
ATIS Information Phonetic Designation
Time Of Report
Wind Direction / Speed
Visibility
Ceiling
Temperature
Dew Point
Barometric Pressure
Type of Approach in use
Runway in use
Notams"

[tango4]

Well, actually, this is a list of standards items you commonly find in an ATIS but has nothing to do with the way they are formatted in D-ATIS. Actually, the things that ATC is supposed to put in the ATIS can slightly vary from country to country according to local regulations.
Anyway, this is a good starting point for a typical ATIS.
I'll try next week to upload a picture of LFPG D-ATIS that is sent via ACARS. But keep in mind that the exact format is not defined.

Charles

[nicolas]

Hi Pierre,

I tried this but the print out always states "(ICAO code) UNAVAIL.". Any idea why?
I enabled weather download by internet.
Nic

Hello nicolas,

Of course, printing METAR via ACARS is fully possible with PSx: it's in the "requests" (you can select DEP, ARR, or any other airport via its 4-letter ICAO code), and the message can only be printed (on PSx virtual paper), and not displayed on the MCDU.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Nicolas, please check whether the station you requested actually is in the downloaded METAR files. You can find the last two files in the PSX "Weather" folder and they can be opened with every flat text (ASCII) editor.

Code Select Expand


06OITT 291350Z 27010KT 9999 FEW035TCU FEW040CB FEW190 35/08 Q1013 A2991
06KM40 291355Z AUTO 18006KT 5SM HZ OVC004 25/16 A3019 RMK AO2
06KANQ 291355Z AUTO 20008KT 10SM OVC017 23/19 A3002 RMK
06KJZI 291355Z AUTO 00000KT 7SM OVC011 26/19 A3017 RMK A02 P000
06KM40 291355Z AUTO 18006KT 5SM HZ OVC004 25/16 A3019 RMK AO2
06KANQ 291355Z AUTO 20008KT 10SM OVC017 23/19 A3002 RMK
06KJZI 291355Z AUTO 00000KT 7SM OVC011 26/19 A3017 RMK A02 P000
06KEVB 291347Z 01004KT 10SM SKC 30/23 A3014
06KIMM 291355Z AUTO 00000KT CLR 33/24 A3015 RMK A01 P000
06PAKU 291345Z 15007KT 10SM R06/P6000FT SCT065 BKN100 09/07 A2989
06KEVB 291347Z 01004KT 10SM SKC 30/23 A3014
06KIMM 291355Z AUTO 00000KT CLR 33/24 A3015 RMK A01 P000
06PAKU 291345Z 15007KT 10SM R06/P6000FT SCT065 BKN100 09/07 A2989
06KLDJ 291355Z AUTO 17004KT 10SM CLR 26/17 A3025 RMK AO2 T02600169
06LATI 291350Z 25007KT 9999 FEW050 31/15 Q1014 NOSIG
06LKLN 291345Z AUTO 24008KT 210V280 9999 -RA BKN014 17/15 Q1010
...



Hoppie

[Hardy Heinlin]

Page 177:

ACARS – ATIS Request Page:

...

(In the simulator, if the checkbox Set zones by flight track is selected on the Instructor's Weather pages, the software will search the latest METAR world database that has been downloaded from the Internet and stored on the hard disk. If the above checkbox is not selected, the software will check if the requested airports are in the Instructor's seven weather zones. In either case, when an airport is found, its associated METAR text—from the world database or from a weather zone—will be added to the list.)


Real-world METARs will be acarsed only if real-world weather is activated; if the requested METAR is not in the real-world reports, the requested METAR is UNAVAIL.  

If real-world weather is deactivated, the METARs in the 7 local zones will be acarsed, as the sim thinks you will use these 7 zones that you've designed; if the requested METAR is not in the 7 zones, the requested METAR is UNAVAIL.

[nicolas]

Ok works now! Sorry for overlooking this.
Nic

[camille]

Hello. This is not 747 related but on the 757,  we have on ACARS on the en route page an ATIS prompt where (by default destination airport name is already in) we can get D-ATIS and it will give the runway in use on beginning of the uploaded message, if that airport broadcast D-ATIS (mentioned on Jeppessen charts).
Have a nice day.
(Got the DVD, but didn't install yet. Sure it will be great)

[IefCooreman]

There is a big difference between D-ATIS messages and METAR/TAF messages. Both can be sent via ACARS.

General METAR/TAF requests are part of the connection with the airline offices. They work through the same principle as general messages to dispatch or maintenance. The METAR/TAF messages are linked through the airline to some database somewhere, and when requested uplinked to the aircraft. I don't know how this works on the 744, but as far as I'm aware all these messages are normally directed straight to the printer.

D-ATIS/D-VOLMET are part of the connection with ATC services (as are oceanic/OCL and pre-departure/PDC clearances). When sending a request for a D-ATIS, this request is sent to the ATC services, and they send it back to the aircraft if all requirements are fullfilled. These messages are shown on the FMC, or CRT/LCD communications page, but can be printed from if required. We do atlantic crossings, get OCLs through this system, get PDC and D-ATIS all over Europe and Asia, however when we go to JFK, it doesn't work (probably because my airline is not paying for it :-)).

So yes, D-ATIS is a message created by ATC based on readings they do in the tower. They usually also contain specific airport information. Some airports are prone to windshear and will add this information, others are doing major construction works and will add specific closed exit taxiways, etc... It is also very funny to see how airports try to keep the message as short as possible with the most versatile abbreviation constructions :-).