Air France jet missing over the Atlantic

[Qavion]

Only pink ones after you have been drinking, PC

[Dominic Manzer]

Hardy,

Now that the French "National Asset" (Nuclear Sub) is on sean, I'll be writing a peace on what their acoustic capabilities and activities should be and how they work. As this will be rather long should I start a new topic?

[Hardy Heinlin]

As this will be rather long should I start a new topic?

Good idea. Thanks.

|-|

[Dominic Manzer]

I posted a description of what and how the French Nuclear Sub will be doing in the search for Flt 447 in a new topic:

Nuclear Subs' acoustic capability.

[Dominic Manzer]

Yesterday it was reported that the autopsies of recovered bodies indicated in flight break up. The bodies have broken limbs but are intact, not torn apart.

The question now becomes did it break up at high altitude or form a high speed dive.

The ACARS cabin pressure alarm supports high altitude unless the alarm could be triggered by a rapid pressure increase from a dive.

Would ACARS report altitude frequently enough to show a dive? If so, it was high altitude, there have been no reports of lost altitude in the data.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Apparently the French have picked up a very weak signal from the FDR.

[Peter Lang]

From http://www.avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1/0022&opt=0

"... There is no official or independent verification for the Jun 23rd report of a single French newspaper fueling a media hysteria at the moment, that weak signals of the black boxes may have been heard. Neither the French Marine, BEA nor Brasilian Authorities confirm (Jun 23rd 09:00Z), that any signals have been heard. The BEA actually denied, that any signals of the black boxes have yet been heard so far. Many signals had been heard during the search so far and were investigated, but did not originate from the black boxes. A spokesman for the French government said (Jun 23rd 9:20Z), that no signals have been received..."

It just seems to be another hoax.

Be also aware of spam with fake fotos of AF-744

Peter

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

More news:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124605948270463623.html

"Aviation investigators, running out of time to find the "black boxes" with key information on the crash of Air France Flight 447, suspect a rapid chain of computer and equipment malfunctions stripped the crew of automation today's pilots typically rely on to control a big jetliner."

"The investigators stress it is too early to pinpoint specific causes. But whatever the eventual findings, the crash already is prompting questions about how thoroughly aviators are trained to cope with widespread computer glitches midflight."

And related (earlier):
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124607165106964441.html

Recent crashes and incidents underscore that "pilots don't just need to understand automation," they also must recognize "how it fails and how to deal with that," says Bill Voss, head of the Flight Safety Foundation. "Some of these situations don't have checklists and plans," he says, yet aviators must "have a way to cope."

In the end, both articles call for more sim training, with equipment out, getting pilots to cope with inop or malfunctioning computer support. Another opportunity for PSX? These malfunctions aren't part of your regular sim, and yet very suitable for hotel room reviews.

[Phil Bunch]

[A previously posted message moved here from a new thread that I started one morning before I was completely awake!]

[Hardy - please delete the misplaced thread , per your reply in that location.]

The relocated message, now in its proper thread, follows:
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124654219866085907.html#printMode

The above news article says that the Air France flight crashed into the ocean at high speed rather than breaking up in flight.

Excerpts:
--------------------------
PARIS -- The Air France jetliner that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean last month, killing all 228 people onboard, hit the water largely intact at a steep angle and broke up on impact, French accident investigators said Thursday.

At a news conference, officials of France's Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses, or BEA, said they still don't know what caused Airbus Flight A447 to plunge into the ocean less than four hours after it had taken off from Rio de Janeiro en route to Paris. BEA officials said they were also still grappling with another question: why the plane was reported missing a full seven hours after reporting its last radio contact.

By establishing that the plane did not break up in midair -- a discovery made by examining wreckage pulled out of the water -- the investigators are starting to piece together the flight's final moments. They are likely to eliminate certain scenarios, such as a midair explosion or that the plane came apart from excessive speed.



Officials said Thursday that the pitot tubes, though a factor, weren't the primary cause of the crash. The full chain of events that prompted the accident is still unknown because salvage teams haven't yet recovered the plane's digital recorders, known as black boxes. "We are very far from establishing the cause of the accident," said Alain Bouillard, the BEA official leading the probe. He said there were no traces of fire or explosion in the wreckage.
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Best wishes,

Phil Bunch

[Phil Bunch]

There is now some sort of dispute between Brazil and Senegal over flight tracking and the handoff of the Air France flight, among other things.  

I have never been entirely comfortable when flying outside of radar tracking, especially in remote areas such as across Russian/Mongolia/China (from Heathrow to Tokyo).  I once read that some airliners fly with their lights on in this corridor so that oncoming airliners can better see them!  I gather that the trans-oceanic flight patterns are more systematically structured, such as from Los Angeles to Sydney.  One would think that some sort of basic GPS plus satellite phone tracking of airliners would be helpful, but obviously I am not qualified to make a specific suggestion.  Such things no doubt take years to standardize and put in place on every airliner.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124665828872591951.html#printMode



Mr. Bouillard said the issue of who was in control of the flight is part of the investigation, but he did not suggest it contributed to the crash. The Brazilian air force said Senegalese officials did not ask about Flight 447's whereabouts until two hours after the plane was expected to be in the African nation's air space.

That delayed launching a search for the missing jet, but Brazilian officials said an air force plane was still in the air at sunrise and began a visual search of the ocean's surface.

The Brazilian air force said in a statement the audio message shows it informed Senegal the Air France flight would enter its airspace at 0220 GMT on June 1. It added that under an agreement between the two nations, controllers need only inform their Senegalese counterparts of a flight's expected arrival to hand over control, and it is up to Senegal to initiate any further contact if a flight does not arrive.

A Senegalese air controller, the statement continued, did not ask about the whereabouts of Flight 447 until 0420 GMT.

However, the Air Navigation Security Agency for Africa and Madagascar, known as ASECNA, said the procedures do not stipulate that if Brazil doesn't hear from Senegalese controllers, they can assume the plane arrived safely.

[Holger Wende]

Salut a tous,

The French BEA have released their second English interim report adding new information regarding the wreckage parts recovered, weather situation, the decoding of ACARS messages, certification and continuing airworthiness of the pitot probes as well as about other events with unreliable airspeed.

Read more at e.g.
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1/0049&opt=0

Holger