Flight MH17 crashed

[nicolas]

Just getting reports of Air Malaysia flight MH17 (Boeing 777)crashed on the way from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur...my thoughts are with the families and I hope for the best. They report that it was shot down over Ukraine...
Nic

[400guy]

An early report here in the U.S. mentions some sort of incident on board, much speculation as to missiles or on board attack.

[Swiso]

Lot of reports that was shot down with a SAM.

[frumpy]

How sick!

http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d

This web site usually has the best, most scrutinized, factual information. Just don't read the comments. Too many people have no clue, but a large opinion.


Hoppie

[Avi]

Lot of reports that was shot down with a SAM.

If so, this is not the first time it happens in the area.
On Oct 4th 2001 a Sibir Airlines Tupolev TU-154M from Tel Aviv (Israel) to Novosibirsk (Russia) was shot down over the black sea by a Ukraine S-200 missile during military exercise.

77 people lost their lives back then.

[Swiso]

Lot of reports that was shot down with a SAM.

If so, this is not the first time it happens in the area.
On Oct 4th 2001 a Sibir Airlines Tupolev TU-154M from Tel Aviv (Israel) to Novosibirsk (Russia) was shot down over the black sea by a Ukraine S-200 missile during military exercise.

77 people lost their lives back then.

I wonder (if really was a SA-11 SAM shooting him down) how can be that such a modern weapon system doesn't have any IFF device that could have warned the guy pushing the button that this plane was a civilian one....or I must assume it was deliberate ?

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Note that the SAM theory is currently a speculation.

If trigger-happy people want to see Enemy Aircraft, they will see them, and will shoot. IFF can, obviously, be spoofed and not getting any answer is, of course, proof that this is not a Friendly. So shoot 'em.

For now, given the speculation and other theories, I assume stupidity and ignorance; not maliciousness (i.e., wanting to shoot an aircraft down, but not this aircraft).

Wrong place, wrong time ...    R.I.P.


Hoppie

[Kurt]

R.I.P.  

[frumpy]

It's really hard to keep my fingers away from the keyboard,
I am really mad and I hope my writing is only a brainfart.

Aircraft have been shot down in the last weeks, and pro-russian
people supposely said that they wanted to shoot down an Antonov
(which should fly lower&slower).

During the development of the Ukrainian crisis the German foreign
minister warned about a threat to the European integrity and
later on about an uncontrollable escalation. Given that Putin does
accept the killing of innocent people (which he has proven several times)
and a Manpad being unable to shoot down an aircraft at 10km
altitude, it's hard for me to think of a simple mistake.
Whats next, an empty voice recorder after it's been opened
in Moscow?

[Phil Bunch]

In some US TV news broadcasts, there is criticism of both the pilot and the airline for using this flight route.  They assert that it was irresponsible to fly through such a hostile country, in which several aircraft were shot down in recent weeks.

[Swiso]

http://live.reuters.com/Event/World_News/121837916

"BREAKING: U.S. Vice President Biden says Malaysia Airlines jet was shot down, "not an accident, blown out of the sky"

[Will]

CNN is reporting that one radar system was detected to have locked on to an aircraft, and another system picked up the heat signature of a missile launch. AvHerald hasn't  been updated with this information yet.

Quote from CNN's front page: "The United States has concluded the Malaysian airline was shot down, a senior U.S. official told CNN's Barbara Starr. One radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down Thursday, according to the official. A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from."

[Jeroen D]

In some US TV news broadcasts, there is criticism of both the pilot and the airline for using this flight route.  They assert that it was irresponsible to fly through such a hostile country, in which several aircraft were shot down in recent weeks.

I was wondering about that. Obviously, each carrier can make it's own call. And apparantly some carriers were already avoiding this are and keeping a more easterly route around Ukraine.

Is there any "international system" in place that would advise or affect instructions to avoid certain parts of a country's airspace. Or does it need to be declared a warzone by someboy. I assume countries can restrict their own national airspace, but if they don't who makes the call it's safe to overfly?

Jeroen

[falconeye]

Perhaps the International Civil Aviation Organisation declares if an airspace is save. As far as I know some airlines have changed their routes months ago. But, for example, Lufthansa did this since yesterday so they probably thought it was not unsave to fly over the Ukraine.

[Andrea1]

Hi,
I have been continuosly thinking about the 298 victims of Flight MH17...
I can't accept they're died in that way..
A stupid Man gave a stupid Order and 298 persons Lost their lives..
I can only pray
R.I.P.
Andrea Buono

[DougSnow]

At the time of the shootdown, the airways in that area were closed in UKDV FIR at FL320 and below.  330 and above (where the aircraft was flying) was open for business.  Eurocontrol validated the route. The Ukraine is managed by Eurocontrol as far as airspace structure goes.

When I heard of the accident, I ran a test plan in my flight planning system at work, and it came back with essentially the same routing. Had we had had a flight in the same city pair, if that route had been returned as the most optimum track, I would have had no reason not to use it.  The A1493/14 NOTAM that Avherald has is the key - FL320 and below was no go (there was another notam for the same airway segments at FL260 and below), 330 and higher was open for business. My system at work had the same NOTAM.

A horrible tragedy yes. I hold MAS in no way responsible for this accident. Why was the ceiling at 320?  Since it has been widely reported that the rebels had a BUK launcher, maybe the ceiling of the closure shouldve been set to a higher altitude or close off from GND to UNL (like it is now), but military people and airspace managers rarely, if ever, talk about airspace issues.

[Oscar Pacheco]

Malaysia MH17 crash scene: Militia and witness reports
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epbCX6QqkY&list=UUpwvZwUam-URkxB7g4USKpg

Talking headlines: Tabloids, TV, McCain blame Putin for Malaysia MH17 tragedy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_XA_FM6Srw&list=UUpwvZwUam-URkxB7g4USKpg

'It is suspicious the plane has deviated from the route it usually takes'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzbNi7JpMy4&list=UUpwvZwUam-URkxB7g4USKpg

[John H Watson]

'It is suspicious the plane has deviated from the route it usually takes'

See post above (not so suspicious). Note that the gentleman being interviewed prefaced his statements with the words "I am not an aviation expert"  :roll:

[frumpy]

Report by Dutch Safety Board, September 2015:
http://www.eenvandaag.nl/uploads/doc/report-mh17-crash-en.pdf

Press release as of yesterday, pointing the finger at Russia:
https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-crash/@96068/jit-flight-mh17-shot/


Sidenote:
It really sickens me to see the Russian information war against the
west going on. Left and right oriented people seem to sympathize with
Russia, believing its lies and in effect harming the EU by falling back
into national thinking.