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Java & Retina Displays

Started by Steve H, Sat, 8 Feb 2014 02:45

Hardy Heinlin

Quote from: Alec246You told us once Java is used by Apple on the iOS system.
Me? I don't think I told you that.

Maybe one of the beta testers did. I don't use iPads.

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Normal remote display software such as VNC seems to work OK to project PSX displays (anything) from a Mac or PC onto any iThing or other VNC/remote desktop client.


Hoppie

John Golin

#22
Neither iOS or Windows RT or Windows 8 Mobile will run Java.

Not sure about Android but I doubt it would work well...

PSX is not an App... :)
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

Phil Bunch

Hmmm...trying to figure out if there is any benefit from beaming any of the PSX-related video content described in this thread from a PC or Mac to an iGadget to an "Apple TV" box and then to any HDMI-compatible monitor.   The iPad does this by using local Wi-Fi.  I do this all the time, using my iPad to display Internet-based video content on my large family room LCD TV.  While there are plenty of other ways to do this, this particular one is convenient for me since it doesn't tie up my PC and is very flexible.  Renting movies from Amazon is one simple example of this.

It seems to me that it would be easier to display PSX-generated video content directly from the originating PC to the HDMI-compatible monitor directly, presumably via a long HDMI cable.  

Or, are there credible schemes that would use assorted iPads to receive content from the PC, using them as passive display devices?  Yet it would still seem simpler and more efficient to install multiple video cards and hook multiple monitors up directly or perhaps across a local network.  iPads are awfully small to use for many flight sim tasks.

I fear I am missing more than one aspect of a basic functional overview of how PSX may be used, which seems unusually flexible given the presence of fast local and non-local networks...

Am I correct in believing that the most CPU-intensive and GPU-intensive tasks for PSX will be generating and displaying the external scenery?  I seem to recall that this was the case for PS1 - it was the FSX "scenery generator" that took most of the then-available computer horsepower.
Best wishes,

Phil Bunch

Hardy Heinlin

#24
Quote from: Phil BunchAm I correct in believing that the most CPU-intensive and GPU-intensive tasks for PSX will be generating and displaying the external scenery?  I seem to recall that this was the case for PS1 - it was the FSX "scenery generator" that took most of the then-available computer horsepower.
Well, FSX is not a part of PSX. And so, FSX is not a task of PSX :-)

If you're asking if PSX's internal windshield "scenery" is CPU/GPU-intensive: I would say, the most hungry parts in PSX are the two NDs, when they are full with map symbols and stuff, along with the sweeping radar images in the background. The next hungry parts are the PFDs. And then maybe the internal windshield "scenery". But it all depends on the size and zoom settings.


Cheers,

|-|ardy

John Golin

There will be many options available given the flexibility that PSX presents.

Streaming the display to a remote device, running multiple instances on one PC or Mac with one or many screens, running networked versions of several Macs /PCs... there will not be a simple answer to how 'well' it will work, it will depend on your expectations and what you want to do.

As Hardy mentioned, the external scenery is simplified so that is not the limiting factor.  I have a pretty grunty, but not current gen PC... Win8.1, core i7 2.7Ghz 16G RAM and NVIDIA 460 with 2 monitors... I run 2 instances of PSX AND FSX for external visuals (with Garry's VisualPSX) and it all screams along.

I have also run multiple instances on a 3 year old HP Notebook with 4GHz RAM, Windows 7 32bit, and it screams along.

I have run it on a Windows 7 Atom Netbook from 2009 with 2G RAM; the speed varies depending on what is displayed... but even as the frame rate drops it is still very smooth... it runs and is perfectly usable for utility functions or basic panel display...

Windows XP ceases support from April so I can't be bothered trying that :)

The upshot - I'd wait until it is released before buying equipment or making plans... iPad are expensive....   you still need to run the program remotely and 'screenscrape' it.

it may be cheaper to buy a notebook or small PC and display where you can run the program directly rather than remotely, or a Windows tablet (Pro, not RT).

And no, it won't run on a Pi. That's a little TOO basic :)

Typed on my Surface Pro
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

Hardy Heinlin

#26
"screams along" -- never heard this phrase :-)

I hope it means something good :-)


/-/

John Golin

John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

Shiv Mathur

Hardy, think of the sounds you hear when watching Formula 1 racing !

Hardy Heinlin

#29
I'm hearing crash sounds :-)




... I see what you mean, but there a lot of ups and downs in pitch in the screaming cars. That's why I wasn't quite sure :-)

falconeye

Yes, but actually the sound of the Formula 1 is very low compared to the former years.
The new motors seem to be more quiet then expected.

Scott

I noticed today that other manufacturers are starting to offer higer resolution displays (i.e. QHD+) that support high DPI graphics like the retina displays on the Macs.  Does the same Java issue hold true for these types of diplays as well?

Hardy Heinlin

I don't know, I'm sorry. Not tested.

Scott

Quote from: Hardy HeinlinI don't know, I'm sorry. Not tested.

No problem, just curious.

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Given their conspicuous mentioning and the contra-intuitive fact that Retina displays are not better for PSX despite their high quality, as of today at least, I elevate this thread to talk about the exact problem and to track the Java/Oracle/Apple progress towards a solution.


Hoppie

John Golin

Quote from: sdanielsI noticed today that other manufacturers are starting to offer higer resolution displays (i.e. QHD+) that support high DPI graphics like the retina displays on the Macs.  Does the same Java issue hold true for these types of diplays as well?

I believe it's not the display per se, but the way the OS / Drivers interact with the display in Mac OSX.
John Golin.
www.simulatorsolutions.com.au

744kid

This is probably a naive question on the Retina problem, but does anyone know what effect checking the "Open in Low Resolution" box has on running PSX? The "Open in Low Resolution" check box can be found in the Get Info on a file/app. From what I've read here this would not address the issues that Java has with the Retina display but I am curious whether it has any (positive) effect at all in running PSX. Just curious :)

744kid

fft82

I've used Quickres (http://www.quickresapp.com) with other apps having issues under retina (such as Google earth), I'm under the impression that if you switch to the native resolution (2560x1600 on the 13inch macbook pro) the rendering problem may disappear, since the driver will not perform any scaling.

Would any retina beta tester try if this works on PSX? (sorry, the app costs $4, but even if it doesn't solve the issue, I think is a must for any retina user!)

farrokh747

#38
MacBook Pro Retina and PSX Update:

on fft82's (and Pierre!) suggestion, Ive installed QuickRez on my MPB

Apple MBP 15 in, Retina, Early 2013
2.7 GHz Intel Core i7
16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.9.3

Java:
V 7, Update 60 (build 1.7.0_60-b19)

Current PSX Beta version

QuickRez allows you to select many resolutions, grouped as HiDPI, and Standard

As discussed, PSX at the the HiDPI settings create issues with some graphics, and show low frame rates.

However, when switching to the standard rez options, the issue is absent - PSX graphics are as advertised, and the frame rate peaks at 65 - 70fps....  

Going above 2880x1800 causes issues even in the standard range - but it is unlikely that one would need to go that high anyway - using the "Best For Retina/1440x900" in standard mode works fine....

If there are specific things you'd like me to check, let me know,

cheers,

fc

farrokh747

Note:

You cannot switch rez settings mid PSX session, changes have to be made after quitting PSX...

fc