Flight deck and cabin crew ...

[Hardy Heinlin]

..., when you begin your briefing on the ground before a flight, how do you know that the colleagues around you are your colleagues?


Cheers,

|-|ardy


P.S.: Of course, if there's a secret trick, please don't tell :-) I just got inspired for this question while reading that the Airbus/Boeing/Whatever Captain, before going to sleep in cruise, has the duty to ask the commanding F/O if he or she has a Commercial Pilot License.

P.P.S.: Perhaps it was misinterpreted and should rather read: "... a valid CPL". In other words, maybe rather a crosscheck of the expiration date than a check of the person.

[the mad hatter]

never been asked that nor have I asked it.. its assumed you are current with an ATP...There is no expiry date on mine and its with my passport and other documents that are required on the deck... maybe if you had a nasty ramp check you may be asked to produce all the valid crew documents  and  with your licence never let them hold it , just show it and there are reasons for that

[Will]

mad hatter, the bit about "never let them hold it" is a myth, at least in the USA. It comes from a misreading of the regs that say a license can be declared invalid it it's "voluntarily surrendered."

There's an urban legend saying that handing your license to an inspector during a ramp check counts as a voluntary surrender.  This is completely incorrect. "Voluntarily surrendering" the certificate is a formal process that means mailing the license to the FAA along with a statement of surrender. Handing it to an inspector during a ramp check really, truly, absolutely does not count as a "voluntary surrender" for the purposes of license forfeiture. Not letting the inspector hold the license will just make the inspector angry and escalate the ramp check from a professional encounter into an adversarial one.

I can't speak for procedures outside the USA, but that's how it is here.

[frumpy]

..., when you begin your briefing on the ground before a flight, how do you know that the colleagues around you are your colleagues?

[offtopic]
That reminds me of a joke:

While being at a party, how do you know if there is a pilot?
He will tell you.
[/offtopic]

[the mad hatter]

@ Will that was my understanding that it would be considered a voluntary surrender, I wonder how the insurance company would look at it for "loss of Licence"

[Will]

mad hatter, it's right there in Part 61.27, Voluntary Surrender of Exchange of Certificate. (b): "Any request made under paragraph (a) of this section must include the following signed statement or its equivalent: This request is made for my own reasons, with full knowledge that my (insert name of certificate or rating, as appropriate) may not be reissued to me unless I again pass the tests prescribed for its issuance."

More details on the administrative process at the link below, repeating that voluntary surrender must be accompanied by a request in writing; when the request is received, the Regional Council is immediately contacted and the surrender will only be accepted with their concurrence. The link further explains to the FAA administrators how to protect an airman's due process rights during a surrender.

http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V05%20Airman%20Cert/Chapter%2002/05_002_005Rev1.htm

When I was in flight training, we also heard this same urban legend, that letting an inspector hold the certificate during a ramp check counted as a "voluntary surrender." It seemed ridiculous on it's face; could you imagine ever saying something similar to a police officer at a traffic stop?

So I walked over to our local FSDO (we had one on the field) and had a chat with the inspectors. They were very helpful in dispelling the myth, pointing out that the "voluntary surrender" is a written request that follows a procedure respecting a pilot's due process rights, and is absolutely not an informal gesture of handing your ticket to an inspector on the ramp.

And I don't think "loss of license" means losing the actual paper ticket itself, it refers to losing the privilege of having it.... :-)

[IefCooreman]

If you don't know your collegues, find a collegue in the crew room he did fly with them. but we are a small company...

I guess in the world of pilots, or at least the one I walk around in, administration is a thing created by and for 'desks'. We have a trizillion papers in our flight folder, one of them is to make sure we don't end up at the wrong desk for the wrong reasons . The paper asks you to check ie: passports, visa, licence and qualifications... Up to the question if you have sufficient cash with you :-).

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Which begs the question: how much cash is sufficient for a line pilot?

The recent trouble of an Air France craft stuck in Syria due to the (fuel) credit card not being accepted probably wasn't covered by this rule...


Jeroen

[luxair_ca]

hi

in my airline, we are not that many, so we know each other, and during checking in (on a computer) we see the crew list, so we know what table we have to go.

for new hires, mostly it is going around and asking who goes to their destination...

Marc

[the mad hatter]

@ Will I will ask the Union about how it would effect the insurance 1 800 =USA ALPA, I was lucky with my US licence it was simply swapped ATP for ATP and that no longer applies today so the handing over was what was told to me.. as for is the all the flight crew one just assume that they are qualified but I recall an incident with a Dutchman that flew for 10 years for a National airline without any paper on a 737 before being discovered.. learnt to fly on a computer as for cash AMEX don't leave home without it.. but did not an Air France flight that diverted ask the pax for cash for fuel?

[IefCooreman]

In Europe it doesn't matter, it's about the small paper called "licence" that is only valid for 5 years. Can be CPL or ATPL for first officers. Many first officers in Europe have either ATPL, or a "frozen" ATPL which is a CPL since he/she still has an ATPL check to do.

The funny thing here is: when a first officer is acting in "relief function" I'm pretty sure a full "unfrozen" ATPL is required, as well as specific training. Whether someone can act as relief first-officer is a qualification issue (as is MNPS qualification, CATII/III,...) and will not be indicated on the licence. We have seperate documents for that. So the question in our company is: "are you qualified and current?" If he/she is long haul, he would have an ATPL anyway in our company since that is a requirement for the sector, but that is company specific (as a side note: the ATPL requirement has - amongst many reasons - to do with the relief function of first officers)

The 5 year validity, as well as medical validity are questions usually posed by instructors only.