744 Forum

Apron => Hangar 7 => Topic started by: samer747 on Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:46

Title: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: samer747 on Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:46
Thanks Hardy,

I wanted to ask you about the CDU brightness indicator bar at the bottom of the CDU screen, is it possible to add a brightness indicator bar that comes on at the bottom section of the CDU screen momentary while increasing or decreasing brightness? this feature is available on the NG CDU units.

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 16 Apr 2022 04:55
I'm not sure what you mean by "brightness indicator bar".

By "NG CDU" you probably mean "LCD CDU". (There's no such thing as an NG CDU; there's just an NG FMC.)

If you mean the LCD CDU specific brightness push buttons; those are already available in PSX.
Just select "LCD CDU" on the Model page.

You can use LCD CDUs on the legacy FMC as well.


Best wishes,

|-|ardy
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Dirk Schepmann on Sat, 16 Apr 2022 10:58
Hi Hardy,

on some CDUs (e.g. 747-8, 777) there is an artificial brightness scale in the scratchpad when you press the DIM buttons.

The scratchpad is filled with white boxes, corresponding to the level of brightness. With maximum brightness, the scratchpad is completely full with white boxes, at lowest brightness the scratchpad shows no white boxes. 

I think it is CDU specific. It looks like it is implemented on all LCD type CDUs which have pushbuttons to control brightness.

Best regards,
Dirk
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 16 Apr 2022 11:09
Thanks, Dirk. If it's standard on all LCD CDUs, I'll implement it when I have the time.

Does it hide the scratchpad text on all subsystems like FMC, ACARS, MENU etc.?


Regards,

|-|ardy
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 16 Apr 2022 11:56
Unfortunately the three LCD CDUs I had on my bench have been returned to their owner, but I know what you mean. I could have filmed the thing. Grrrr.

Now I need to rely on memory. Can some big iron driver make a few shots of this?

The brightness indicator bar is simply implemented by writing blocks (not open boxes as far as I remember) to the scratch pad, thereby masking out whatever was there. I don't remember whether anything that was there is first completely suppressed but I guess that is the only reasonable option. A few seconds after the last button push, the whole thing disappears and the original scratch pad contents returns. It is an internal CDU function, so the subsystems have no clue about this all and it is universal for each page and each MENU choice.


Hoppie
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:31
When the brightness is set to zero, will the bar show 1 block or none?
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:24
I don't remember but I do remember I played with it and I came to the conclusion that the design was sane, so you could for example not dim the display to nil and then confuse the heck out of your colleagues. This means that I now bet that the minimum bar length indeed is one for minimum brightness. When you keep pushing minus, it will stay at one and not disappear and make you wonder whether your key presses are being seen at all.


Hoppie
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Dirk Schepmann on Sat, 16 Apr 2022 14:40
Here are some details regarding the scratchpad messages.
No information if the bar goes to zero or if one block remains displayed, though.

(https://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/2022-04-16_13.38.00_CDU-Brightness.png)
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: samer747 on Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:12
I can take a video of a B777 CDU to demonstrate going up to a full brightness then going down to a full dim  and send to you.
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: flyer605 on Tue, 19 Apr 2022 04:09
Here is a link to a video showing the brightness scale on the 747-8. I think this is the same behaviour as on the -400 LCD CDU (apologies for the black scrolling across the screen - that obviously doesn't occur with the mk1 eyeball)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ezn7dfasdgxwnl/CDU%20BRT.mov?dl=0

QuoteWhen the brightness is set to zero, will the bar show 1 block or none?

One bar does remain displayed at the minimum level.

QuoteI don't remember but I do remember I played with it and I came to the conclusion that the design was sane, so you could for example not dim the display to nil and then confuse the heck out of your colleagues.

Confusion avoided - the screen is still on at the lowest brightness level.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 19 Apr 2022 07:56
Thank you for the video. This helps.

I see a "+" sign remains in position 24.

Did you hit the switch 23 times? Does each hit cause one block step?

Does the brightness also change when you hold the switch? If so, how long does it take from max to min?


Regards,

|-|ady
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: flyer605 on Wed, 20 Apr 2022 00:39
QuoteThank you for the video. This helps.

Very welcome!

QuoteI see a "+" sign remains in position 24.

The plus sign does get covered up by the final block at maximum brightness.

QuoteDid you hit the switch 23 times? Does each hit cause one block step?

Each hit causes one block step - I can't remember specifically how many times I hit it, but I guess assuming from minimum brightness (one block) to maximum brightness (24 blocks) I think it would be 23 switch pushes. Will check in a few days when I fly again (most likely also -8, but still -400 applicable I think)

QuoteDoes the brightness also change when you hold the switch? If so, how long does it take from max to min?

It does, but I can't remember timings. Will do some investigation on my next flight.
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:33
The bar is now implemented in PSX 10.153. Thanks again to flyer605 and Sam for the videos; the delay, scroll, and bar removal timings in PSX agree exactly with the real box.

https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=4191.0


Regards,

|-|ardy
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: B747-400 on Fri, 22 Apr 2022 20:50
Hi Hardy,

btw.: can we generate those boxes as well over the CDU QCodes?

THX, BR
Hans
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:49
They are linked to BRT rocker switch pushes. If you control that switch, they will appear. They are not a function that should be controllable outside rocker switch pushes, I believe. And certainly not from any CDU subsystem. It's purely an internal CDU feature.


Hoppie
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: B747-400 on Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:58
Yeah, I know that they are for the BRT push rocker.

But when one of us creates a sub system for volume control of some of our speakers, it would be great having the same boxes available in the CDU display. Just as we can define background color etc....

BR
Hans
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 22 Apr 2022 23:12
These filled boxes are not part of the CDU font in PSX, so you can't use them.

If I were you I would use the little stars **** which you see on the ACARS OOOI page. I find them cute.


|-|ardy
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: B747-400 on Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:54
THX. I was afraid, that they are not in the font set. I tried all chararcters and did not got them  ;)

What also work is the light gray background (y).

BR
Hans
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:26
Ah, the gray background. -- You're a genius :-)
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: flyer605 on Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:18
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:33
The bar is now implemented in PSX 10.153. Thanks again to flyer605 and Sam for the videos; the delay, scroll, and bar removal timings in PSX agree exactly with the real box.

https://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=4191.0


Regards,

|-|ardy

Very welcome - I was just about to put up a video showing the scroll timings, but it looks like you got everything you need, it works great thank you!
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: samer747 on Sun, 24 Apr 2022 19:18
Thanks Hardy,

The bars look identical and the timing is perfect.

I couldn't see the brightness bars on my FDS CDU, but it works fine on the main screen, it looks like the FDS CDU brightness control is internal only to the actual CDU unit and not interfaced with PSX (brightness control only). I'm not so sure if there is a way that I can see the brightness bar on FDS CDU when I control brightness from the actual FDS cdu?

Regards

Sam
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sun, 24 Apr 2022 19:42
Do you have an FDS CDU with a brightness pushbutton or with a brightness pot?

The FDS interface software probably doesn't look at the sim's CDU model in use, and therefore the interface probably controls the brightness pot of the CRT model. It's been doing this since 2014. I introduced the LCD model in 2020 along with a new Q variable for the brightness pushbutton. I guess the FDS interface doesn't use that yet.

The bar only works with the pushbutton. To keep it compatible, the pushbutton actually turns the CRT model's pot which then changes the brightness in both models. The pot body is just not visible on the PSX deck when the LCD model is in use. But it still operates in the background. That's why the brightness control still works in your hardware. Just the bar is invisible because it's linked with the pushbutton system, and that system cannot be simulated by the pot as the pot cannot provide click & hold-repeat effects.


Regards,

|-|ardy
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: samer747 on Sun, 24 Apr 2022 21:25
Do you have an FDS CDU with a brightness pushbutton or with a brightness pot?

I do have the FDS CDU with the push button type.
When I select brightness from the PSX screen I can see the brightness bars on FDS CDU screen but if I select brightness from FDS CDU I don't, also when I dim the FDS CDU the PSX screen dims too and vice versa, so it is interfaced, everything works as it should just for some reason the brightness bar doesn't show on the FDS CDU when using brightness control from FDS CDU.
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Mon, 25 Apr 2022 00:05
Quote from: samer747 on Sun, 24 Apr 2022 21:25
... just for some reason the brightness bar doesn't show on the FDS CDU ...

The reason is this: The FDS interface software probably controls the brightness pot of the CRT model in PSX. It's been doing this since 2014. I introduced the LCD model in 2020 along with a new, special interface variable for the brightness pushbutton. I guess the FDS interface doesn't use that new, special interface variable.

P.S.: Just curious, does the FDS interface incorporate that 500 ms delay between the first click and the start of the scrolling?

Anyway, to get that bar, the FDS interface needs to be updated by someone. When the LCD CDU is in use in PSX, the FDS interface just needs to push that new switch variable that I introduced in 2020 -- instead of turning the knob. But only when the LCD CDU is in use in PSX!

When the CRT CDU is in use in PSX, the FDS pushbutton needs to turn the CRT CDU pot in PSX as it does now.

There is another PSX network variable that tells the add-on whether the CRT or LCD model is in use in PSX.
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Will on Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:46
Just in case anyone needs any confirmation... I'm seeing this too, with my FDS CDU.

I guess the engineers at TekWorx, who wrote the module manager software, would be the ones to make an update? Perhaps an email to FDS would help. I'm happy to reach out to them unless someone else want to... or already has.
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:36
Quote from: Will on Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:46
I'm happy to reach out to them ...

Would be nice.
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:16
Just in case anyone is interested, here's a quick reference ...

To send brightness pushbutton commands into PSX to a certain CDU, the interface needs to use these variables for the related CDU (L, R, or C) as shown in Aerowinx/Developers/Variables.txt:

Qh428="BrtPushCduL"; Mode=ECON; Min=-1; Max=1;
Qh429="BrtPushCduC"; Mode=ECON; Min=-1; Max=1;
Qh430="BrtPushCduR"; Mode=ECON; Min=-1; Max=1;

For example, to send a "minus pushed" event to CDU L, send this text to PSX:

Qh428=-1

To send a "plus pushed" event to CDU L, send this text to PSX:

Qh428=1

To send a "brightness button released" event to CDU L, send this text to PSX:

Qh428=0

Such an event needs to be sent only when it happens, once, not permanently. And these LCD specific events should only be sent when PSX is simulating LCD CDU models (i.e. brightness pushbuttons instead of pots).

To check whether PSX is simulating an LCD CDU, the interface needs to read this variable from PSX:

Qi248="CfgPin2Prog"; Mode=ECON; Min=-2147483648; Max=2147483647;

The PSX network sends this:

Qi248=[any integer value]

The integer that Qi248 delivers is a bitmask value:

if ( ( value & 524288 ) != 0 ) then CduL = LCD
if ( ( value & 1048576 ) != 0 ) then CduR = LCD
if ( ( value & 2097152 ) != 0 ) then CduC = LCD


Regards,

|-|ardy



Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Jetcos on Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:50
I spoke with Brent at TekWorx and he will add it to his list. I'll post back so you guys can test it once he updates the Driver.

Thanks for pointing it out!
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Jetcos on Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:21
TekWorx got around to testing the updates for supporting the LCD CDU's in Aerowinx. 

The update package is at https://www.tekworx.com/get_download.php?download=interfaceIT_Module_Manager_v1.2.3.zip (https://www.tekworx.com/get_download.php?download=interfaceIT_Module_Manager_v1.2.3.zip)

I haven't tested it, it would be great to get some feedback for Brent and myself.

Thanks
Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Will on Fri, 17 Jun 2022 03:32
I can report that this works perfectly with the FDS CDU, in the LCD version.

The brightness bar comes up on the FDS display as it should, it responds to keypresses on the hardware CDU, and it perfectly tracks the brightness bar in PSX.

With the CRT CDU, the hardware brightness pushbuttons don't seem to change the brightness, although I'm not sure if that's the intent.

Thanks, Brent and Jetcos! Good job!



Title: Re: CDU brightness indicator bar
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 18 Jun 2022 19:40
Quote from: Will on Fri, 17 Jun 2022 03:32
With the CRT CDU, the hardware brightness pushbuttons don't seem to change the brightness, although I'm not sure if that's the intent.

Oh, I didn't think of that combination. Sorry, so my previous suggestion wasn't optimal. New suggestion: Whether the new pushbutton interface is active or not shouldn't depend on the CDU type in use in PSX (ignore Qi248); it should depend on the CDU brightness control type in the hardware: When the hardware has pushbuttons, apply the pushbutton interface. When the hardware has a pot, apply the pot interface. PSX accepts either interface type regardless of the CDU type in use in PSX. When a pushbutton command gets into PSX into a "pot" CDU, the command will turn the pot until the pot hits its limit or until the command is stopped. No problem. Also, when a pot reposition command gets into PSX into a "pushbutton" CDU, that CDU will change its brightness correctly nevertheless, -- but directly -- that is, the command will bypass the pushbutton animation in PSX and thus the indication bar will not appear. But that's acceptable, I think.

In short words:

Hardware with pot: Apply pot interface:
PSX CRT changes brightness as usual (no indication bar)
PSX LCD changes brightness like a CRT (no indication bar)

Hardware with pushbuttons: Apply pushbutton interface:
PSX CRT changes brightness as usual (no indication bar)
PSX LCD changes brightness like an LCD (indication bar appears)


Regards,

|-|ardy