744 Forum

Apron => Accessories => Topic started by: Will on Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:59

Title: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:59
Hi all,

I searched the forum for "throttletek" and read all the posts, but I still have a few questions.

1. It looks like most people were able to get their issues addressed. Are any Throttletek users still stuck with problems you couldn't solve? Or did you get every lever and button working properly?

2. What do you think in terms of size, weight, heft, and feel?

3. What about build quality, durability, and reliability?

Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Britjet on Sat, 11 Dec 2021 10:31
Hi Will,

I’ve got one. I’ve had it for a few years and it still works, unbelievably, given the build quality.
The potentiometers are very poor, but they do the job. One became very erratic, but they were good enough to send me a replacement. The FIRE lights on the cutoff switches are poorly lit on mine - hardly visible, but it may be that they require a higher voltage than I use. I don’t know.
I’ve never been able to get the STAB TRIM cutout switches to work - presumably there is a way,  it no big deal.
All the “Boeing brown” paint in the metal fascia that covers the thrust lever arc has flaked off - it was never primed initially for the metal surface as far as I can see - but that is easily repainted.
Getting a realistic tensioning on the thrust levers is tricky, as it is only done by tightening a silicon nut, but once set it works pretty well.
Due to the poor quality of the potentiometers, two of my four sets deliver differing numbers, so this results in problems with the reversers or throttles being locked out by the 747 interaction system (ie you can’t apply reverse until the throttles are fully closed etc) so this can cause problems, but I generally find a full cycle of the levers to the stops each time fixes this.
The price is very high for what it is. Then there is the transport and customs costs from El Salvador on top. It’s not that heavy but is quite bulky.
I closed my eyes when I paid up at each stage, but as a cheap alternative to the FDS and other solutions it does the job. The levers feel very realistic, and it looks the part, and has made a huge difference to my sim. Is it worth paying the extra for a much better version? Maybe, but warts and all, I’m happy with mine, but don’t expect value for money..
Actually, I’m really surprised non-one has produced a better commercial version - even the new generic jet quadrants coming out now look toy-like in comparison..
Hope that helps…
Peter
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:50
Thanks, that's very helpful. Ricardo (the manufacturer) says that all the axes now have Hall effect sensors with the exception of the thrust reverse levers, which are still potentiometers. I don't know if that's the same build that you have, or a different one.

It sounds like your issues are with the pots, the paint peeling, and the STAB TRIM switches, but the "feel" is realistic now that you have the tensioning correct. So I'm guessing the levers don't wobble around, and that the whole thing still feels usable and sturdy?

[Edit: I originally thought the fuel cutoff switches needed a network solution, but they can be mapped to USB buttons in PSX, so only the lights within them need networking prowess to activate, if I understand correctly.]
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Britjet on Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:09
Hi Will,
Good news about the Hall effect sensors. That will make a huge difference.
The thrust levers do indeed feel good. Using them feels like the real thing, although the general friction isn’t quite the same. The levers are of a sturdy build, the flap and speedbrake levers feel a little underwhelming but they’re not bad.
I never had a problem with selecting the right flaps or speedbrake. They work very well with Hardy’s calibration interface..
You are correct about the CutOff Switches. It’s just the lights that I have had trouble with.
I found Ricardo helpful with regard to feedback etc.

Peter
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: KaiTak on Mon, 13 Dec 2021 19:58
Hi Will,
I have a Throttletek 747 quadrant myself, and I can confirm everything Peter wrote about it, so compared to even more costly solutions, it would be an option. It really looks like the real thing. Maybe there is an alternative now, a 747 TQ for 3d printing with automatic parking brake and speed brake release, trim indicator etc, created by Frederic Renquet for about 60 Euros (stl files only, of course). It has even indicator markings along the power levers' path (all these things are lacking wioth Throttletek). If you buy the stl files and have it 3d printed commercially, it will probably be much cheaper in the end than the Throtteltek solution. But I do not own one, so I cannot comment of performace and how the finished product will look like and feel in comparison to Throttletek. However, I think it is also worth considering. Here is the link

https://cockpitbuilderswebstore.com/product/boeing-747-throttle-quadrant/

Would be eager to hear if anyone has built it.

Can you explain further on the hall effect sensors modification? I would consider upgrading my device to hall effect sensors if doable.

Klaus
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:19
"Can you explain further on the hall effect sensors modification? I would consider upgrading my device to hall effect sensors if doable."

I really shouldn't be the one to describe his product, especially since I've never even seen it myself. I'd suggest reaching out to Ricardo via his email, which you can find on the Throttletek website. He and I have exchanged a few emails over the past week and he always answers the same day, very responsive. If he's okay with you posting his responses here, I imagine others would be interested in what he has to say.
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: KaiTak on Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:30
Hi all,
Yes, I fully agree. I will try that. BTW, Roberto is really responsive, however, I had a minor issue with one of the AT disconnect switches which is not quite so sturdy and got broken. Roberto promised me to send me a new one (which should be less than 1 US$, I think). When he didn't, I asked him again, he replied he had just forgotten it and will do so soon, but until today, it didn't arrive. So this is a tiny grain of salt, but wanted to let you know.
Perhaps someone reading this and owing an updated version of the TQ can post a photo how the hall sensors and magnetoes are fixed to the gears.
Klaus
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 03:06
And KaiTak, thanks for your input. Very helpful.
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 03:40
...And KaiTak, I have a message for you if you are willing to enable the "receive email" setting in your Aerowinx profile.

Best,

Will


Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Britjet on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 09:35
Will,

If the message is about the Hall effect sensors, could you send me a copy, please?
Thanks.
Peter
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: KaiTak on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:10
You are very welcome, Will. If you have any further questions, post them.

In my profile, I have enabled the option to receive e-mails from other members, so I think you can send me a message now. Would really appreciate to get it.

Happy landings,
Klaus
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: asboyd on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 21:16
Will,

If the message is about the Hall effect sensors, could you send me a copy, please?
Thanks.
Peter

Me also, would be interesting to see how they have used them!
AlexB
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 15 Dec 2021 06:00
Will,

If the message is about the Hall effect sensors, could you send me a copy, please?
Thanks.
Peter

Peter, if Will sends a message to you via aerowinx.com (even with https now), your mail provider will consider it spam and block it.
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: asboyd on Wed, 15 Dec 2021 06:06
Will's email from Aerowinx made it through to my email account.... Maybe it is not seen as spam using Zoho mail...

:)

Cheers,
AlexB
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Britjet on Wed, 15 Dec 2021 09:27
Thanks Hardy.
Peter
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: emerydc8 on Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:11
Happy New Year everyone. I've had the ThrottleTek for a few years and I can confirm virtually everything Peter and KaiTak said applies to mine, except the paint on mine is still in great condition. I suspect it has something to do with living in a dry climate. I'm using the alternate stab trim switches to drive my rudder trim, since they are so infrequently used anyway. I am mostly happy with it, except for the reversers: I have never been able to configure them to deploy simultaneously. It's hit-or-miss, kind of like the old DC-8-54s.

When I disconnect the A/T to fly an approach (three clicks), I momentarily push the throttles all the way forward, then back to idle, then to where I need them, otherwise I may not get idle thrust (resulting in no reverse), or it may take almost full forward throttle position to maintain the power required for the approach and definitely couldn't do a missed approach like that. It depends on where the throttles were when I disconnected.

For the money, the quality isn't really there, but no one else is making an authentic looking TQ for the 744 in that price range. I was willing to pay the $10,000+ to FDS, but at the time they didn't have a TQ from the real airplane and I didn't want to wait. But like Peter said, it does the job.
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Thu, 30 Dec 2021 13:55
Thanks, that's very helpful.

Maybe the Easter Bunny will bring me a ThrottleTek...
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Peter Lang on Thu, 30 Dec 2021 19:23
Hello Will,

I have a TrottleTec as well for more than 5 years now. And I totally agree with Peter and KaiTak.
If it would be possible I also would replace the original B50 K potis with hall effect potentiometers. I experimented with them and they are really smart. Very accurate and no spikes. But... the brackets for the potis are glued to the structure. I already had to replace two of the B50 K potis (Eng. 3 and 4) and it was difficult to fiddle them in. There seems to be no possibility to replace these potis with hall effect potentiometers without breaking off the brackets, as the body of the hall effect poti is about twice times larger in thickness and diameter. Maybe ThrottleTec changed the design to more ease of maintenance. Then it would be a good choice.

The Reversers are a special topic. The potis are very tiny and very spiky. No chance for proper work. Even not with Hardy's excellent calibration tool. Reverser No#1 still out of order. Although Ricardo send a replacement for this, the gearwheel had the same eccentricity as the previous one. So it was not a durable solution.

The Fuel Cutoff Switches lights work in principle, but unfortunately not in my Sim, as I use TekWorx cards and software.

Hope this helps
Peter
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Fri, 31 Dec 2021 04:17
Well, confirmed, the Easter Bunny will indeed be bringing me a ThrottleTek this spring. I'll report back with my impressions.

emerydc8, I have the Warthog HOTAS and throttles now, and I do what you do except three clicks and then pull back, then push forward to the appropriate thrust. It works well. I'm hoping the new hardware adds some additional fun. I've got trims mapped to the joystick, so I was thinking if using the alternate stab trim switches for the PSX checklists... but we'll see.

Thanks everyone for the input.
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: emerydc8 on Fri, 31 Dec 2021 09:10
Hi Will,

It's been so long that I forgot I used the stab trim cutout switch for the rudder trim input. IMHO, having a real rudder knob is so much more immersive that twisting the joy stick, and you can do it for less than $30. The hardest part was drilling and tapping the large nut and bolt under the center console. There's a finish nail that extends vertically from the long cap head bolt and that's what activates the switches for low and high-speed trim (4 switches total).  I just drilled a small hole and used epoxy (PC-7) to hold the nail. The rudder knob was made from a 1 3/4" dowel and I drilled/carved out the bottom to fit over the bolt head using epoxy.  I admit the whole thing is sloppy, but you don't see the bottom side anyway and the rudder trim is heavy-duty. It's given me zero problems over the years. I made this before I realized FDS had them for under $400, but I'm not sure their knob would interface well with my center console made from 5/8" particle board. In any case, it does the job and with Hardy's software it works perfectly.
Jon

(https://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/2021-12-31_08.40.44_1.jpg)

(https://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/2021-12-31_08.41.39_2.jpg)

(https://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/2021-12-31_08.42.30_3.jpg)
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Fri, 31 Dec 2021 17:24
I'm using a hat switch on the joystick for both rudder trim and stabilizer trim, but your setup looks good.

I'm not ready to move beyond plug & play peripheral equipment yet... maybe someday. (Although I do have the FDS CDU, and that wasn't *exactly* plug and play. But not what I'd call maximum-intensity networking, either.)

And speaking of FDS, they seem to have removed the assorted B747 hardware from their website. I suppose you could still contact them and ask what they'd be willing to build, but they're clearly not emphasizing off-the-shelf B747 cockpit equipment anymore.
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 31 Dec 2021 18:25
And speaking of FDS, they seem to have removed the assorted B747 hardware from their website.

Are you using older FDS shop links? I still see 747 stuff and links on their web pages:

https://flightdecksolutions.com/components/p/fds-b747-pro-mx-cdu-e

https://flightdecksolutions.com/our-fleet/B747


|-|
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Fri, 31 Dec 2021 18:28
I see that, but as recently as 2-3 months ago they had links to their stand-alone MCP, and photos of their EFIS buttons and EICAS controls. Maybe other parts, too. My guess is that they have shifted to concentrating on whole B747 sims now, as opposed to selling individual components? (Except the CDU, of course.)
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: emerydc8 on Fri, 31 Dec 2021 22:58
You're probably right -- I'm not seeing the rudder trim unit they used to list on their website, but I'd bet they still sell it.
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Wed, 9 Feb 2022 04:26
Well... my Throttletek arrived. I have to say, I agree with all the comments and mini-reviews posted here.

Calibration was a bit fiddly, with calibration (or setup) in Windows being essential, followed by calibration in PSX.

The only problems were with the reversers, and I guess I experienced the same basic issues I'm sure everyone else has seen, but I ultimately solved the problems by setting the throttles' aft stop at 975 instead of 1000 in PSX, and then using the technique of triple-clicking the A/T disconnect to synch the thrust levers in PSX with the throttles. Done on approach prior to landing, this has so far ensured that the throttles are full aft when retarded all the way. On takeoff, I stand the throttles up, hit TO/GA, then push them all the way forward. The A/T brings them back to the takeoff setting. So far, this has worked for reverser activation on rejected takeoffs. Alternatively, pulling the thrust levers back and triple-clicking A/T disconnect works as well.

After final fiddling and calibrating, I flew 10 landings tonight, and 10 rejected takeoffs, and the reversers worked properly each time.

What this really adds in terms of "fun" is the proper activation of the reversers: from stowed, to reverse idle, to full reverse, and back again. I had been doing triple-BKSP up until now, so there's some more concentration involved after touchdown, but like I said, it's fun.

Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: andrej on Thu, 23 Jun 2022 16:35
Will,

some time has passed and I am wondering, what you think of the quadrant?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: Will on Thu, 23 Jun 2022 17:40
Hi Andrej,

I like it, it certainly gets the job done. It still works as well as it did when it arrived... nothing has broken or degraded. I'm not building a home cockpit so I'm not trying to integrate it within a bigger console. So for me what really makes the difference is having every lever (including the reverse levers) working. This is the only piece of commercially available equipment I know of that can make that claim.


The down sides are that it's not machined on the same equipment that makes actual Boeing parts, so there are some concessions here and there. The throttle grips and the flap grip are wood, for example. And you can tell that the friction in the unit comes from its own internal torque rod, as opposed to coming from cables that are connected to actual engines. In particular, the reverser levers don't have the natural resistance you'd expect compared to the real aircraft.

Otherwise it's pretty good. Any specific questions about it?
Title: Re: Throttletek 747 quadrant?
Post by: andrej on Fri, 24 Jun 2022 09:48
Hi Will,

thanks for your feedback. I wanted to know how happy your were with the product. There is nothing particular in regards to B744 Throttle. You have provided me with more than enough information.

Thank you!