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Apron => Pit => Topic started by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:19

Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:19
For business (yes, it involves aircraft business this time) I will drop by Miami for a few days somewhere in January. Any PS1 madmen out there who would like to meet up?


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: John Golin on Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:45
No, but if you need an assistant I am happy for you to fly me over there as well... :P
Title: Miami people?
Post by: cavaricooper on Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:50
Jeroen:

I live in Tampa......would be happy to meet up.....lmk what dates and if I'm not in Atlanta (market) I would be happy to meet with you.

Carl
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:48
I was just there last week... bad timing.  Maybe next trip.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:53
I'm leaving for Miami this Sunday 16th and return on Thursday 20th. But the planning still is not fixed so it is hard to predict if I would have any time off.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:49
Quote from: Jeroen HoppenbrouwersI'm leaving for Miami this Sunday 16th and return on Thursday 20th. But the planning still is not fixed so it is hard to predict if I would have any time off.

Looks like the Miami weather is cooling off.  (grins)  High today is 80F (27C), but somewhat cooler the rest of this week.  I'm sure it will warm back up by the 16th!

I hope you get some time off to enjoy the warm ocean breezes.  I've always found that even a few days in warm climates gives one much more energy to face the rest of winter.  It's remarkable how that breaks up the severity of winter weather.

I had to travel quite a lot during my career.  So many interesting cities were only seen from the back seat of a taxi...it must be even worse for airline crews.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:01
Last time I went far away (in 2003) I found myself on the Sydney coast in the basement of a machine factory for three weeks... something tells me that this trip will be the same.   :-)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:49
Hoppie hums some Beach Boys tune.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:55
Oh, you're in California :-)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:44
Actually it rained more than enough to remind me of home, and heavy rain on wet asphalt is the same everywhere... I've seen quite a few planes today and we more than likely will burn some avgas and Jet-A this week. In the mean time I continue interfacing my MCDU to actual ARINC 429 wires. Silly work trips...
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 25 Jan 2011 05:12
Next stop... Avilés...
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:01
Oh, I'll be back to Miami this July-August, it seems.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:23
Quote from: Jeroen HoppenbrouwersOh, I'll be back to Miami this July-August, it seems.

Mid-winter is a much better season to visit that part of the US!  

Humidity beyond comprehension, along with the temperatures.

Some find the desert southwest (Arizona, etc) easier to handle even though the temperatures are higher - the humidity is much lower in the desert.  Still, when I visited a friend in Phoenix one summer, the *low* temperature was 95 F (35 C), only accomplished late at night.

...by far the hottest place I've personally visited was Singapore, due to its combination of very high humidity and temperature.  It's only about 60 miles from the equator.  Not only hotter than any location I had experienced, but hotter than I could have imagined.  Yet it was an exceptionally beautiful city to visit, with flowering trees and bushes everywhere.

I'm sure your trip will be most enjoyable.  Everything is of course air conditioned!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:21
I wonder whether hangars are air conditioned. Or aircraft parked.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:48
no sir no A/C just huge fans that are loud.. be thankful you are not going to TX its really hot here at moment pool is like a bath and I have 35,000 gals of water in it.

 I would extend an invitation to visit and fly... but I just have parts no fun in that.. Unless you want to go for a drink, I'll get ya drunk have you dance on tables, get you arrested  then your reputation will be secure for years to come :-))
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Shiv Mathur on Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:23
Quote from: the mad hatter... I'll get ya drunk have you dance on tables, get you arrested  ...

Ho-hum  :roll:  
Been there, done that.
I'm sure Hoppie wanted to do something new on this trip.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:33
No way Shiv, I wasn't drunk and not really arrested, and besides, it was in Coventry.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Thu, 16 Jun 2011 02:44
Coventry!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now your 'reputation is secure" as an Englishman in TX I fully understand.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Fri, 1 Jul 2011 20:28
I'm going in at the deep end. July 25 out, August 15 back to the low lands. I'll bring my SCUBA mask.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Thu, 18 Aug 2011 04:26
Well, the temperature and humidity weren't too bad anyway. And in between business, I also saw enough of Miami, Miami Beach, and the Far West extending to the Everglades (West of SW 137th Ave) to be comfortable with it.

So I can now formally announce that I will be relocating permanently to Miami in about six weeks, to join a company which dovetails very well with my experience: www.avionica.com.

It took me 15 years to get this far, and all because I once wanted to buy an ATC simulator box, found out it would only run on Windows 95 which I did not have, and then decided to pick up the box next to it, some 747 simulator, that looked interesting and also had ATC anyway. And most importantly, it ran on DOS. No frills.

Well, today I'm back to the 100 MHz CPU, but DOS has been replaced by Linux. I love working on plain hardware with no "user interface" except a single blinking LED. Ok, it uses a low orbit satellite constellation to get onto the internet, but it feels like a 1990s dialup modem. And most importantly, it looks surprisingly like the ACARS system I dreamed up many moons ago. Because much of it was, believe it or not, inspired by my dreams when I developed the PS1.3a Broker. Call that full circle?

Next stop: Miami, 0.5 nm South of KTMB (http://www.miami-airport.com/kendall_tamiami.asp).


Jeroen

(http://www.miami-airport.com/images/pic_pages_kendall02.jpg)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Thu, 18 Aug 2011 04:30
Hey, welcome to the USA!  Congrats on the new job.  Come say Hi the next time you're in Chicago.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Shiv Mathur on Thu, 18 Aug 2011 07:15
Hoppie, heartiest congratulations on the new job!
Here's wishing you much pleasure and satisfaction with it.

Cheers,
Shiv
Title: Miami people?
Post by: John Golin on Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:47
Congratulations Hoppie!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:59
Congratulations on your new job and your exotic new location!  Down that way, I've always wanted to vacation in Key West in particular, but never found the opportunity.  

It should prove to be quite an exciting adventure in so many ways.  It's great that you're able to move into an aviation-related job - I'm sure that your natural enthusiasm for things aviation will combine with your knowledge of things computational and that this move will bring much success to yourself and your new employer - let us know how it's going from time to time.

I predict (grins) that it won't be long until you have your PPL and are flying the big jets around, etc!

First thing to do is to throw away all your winter clothes, coats, boots, etc - at most you might need an unlined light jacket for the coldest evenings.  It's easy to fall in love with tropical weather, especially in these modern times when literally everything is air conditioned in the southern US.

Do you have an estimated move date?
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:21
Hoppie,

Welcome to that States, you may suffer from accent divide for a while I know I did, the food is very different as well, and to eat healthy is expensive, the banking system sucks, so do not close your home bank accounts,(in fact ask your bank for a credit card in USD) your credit score is the most important thing here and it takes a while to build like three years plus and everything you do here is based upon that number, insurance costs, credit-cards etc etc, financially you will be treated like a child here in the US letters of introduction from your home bank have no effect regardless, I trust your employer is going to co sign a lease for so you have somewhere to live (again the credit score thing) as you have had no credit you can not lease or buy property..Well you can but you have to buy down the lease by putting a lot of cash upfront... so you may have to do what we did and take out EEC  loan based in dollars in short moving here is a nightmare for a while

Do not forget now you are working here, I assume you have the green card , now your income is taxable worldwide regardless. everything over 70k  until it expires in either 5 or 10 years they may have gotton you the H1B1 and if this is the case (h1b1) then your employer owns you, with the green card you have more flexibility.

Now may I be so bold as to make a suggestion... ask your employer if you can be 1099 rather than W2 once you find the difference between the two it is huge :-) ... You can claim the cost of your cockpit directly to your 1099 for a period of 5 years  6 at a push... then throw in your PPL ME CPL IR ME CFI then your flying then become directly relatable to your sim build (you just have to prove the intent) and again a 1099 benefit  .. Never be W2'd in the states if you can help it as it limits you. In short you are paid Gross on a 1099 and Nett with a W2 the 1099 allows for much larger deductions that are business related if you have to do a W2 then it maybe harder to claim these things under schedule C of your 1040 (I learnt all of this the hard-way) :-(    AS you know most most pilots talk about few things in the office  "Money"more "Money" "Woman" and Airline Management  but mostly money did I mention that?  :-)

Where you are located is warm TX is hot. Key West is just a really cool place loved it there.

If you want to learn to fly whist you are here I'll sit in the right seat with you and guide you through the US process, and effect an introduction to a regional after you have your CPL/ME/IR this will kill all desire to fly professionally at 18 dollars an hour flying 9 legs a day oh and you will be seat locked this what the new hire regional pilots are earning then lets say you have 3000 hours regional experience well you are still stuck because you have no PIC time :-) Just fly for fun buy a 150 for 12K and have a blast

bloody hell that was a rant was it not

Bernard

Edit:  However all the above aside once you are established and settled the States is a great place to reside life is very easy here compared to Europe
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Peter Sagar on Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:25
Hoppie, congratulations on the new job. I genuinely hope you and your family enjoy the new lifestyle and country.

The two things that I really noticed about Florida - 'gators everywhere, and the low, low land level; barely a couple of feet above sea level - Oh wait, you're already used to that  second part  :D  :D  :D

I hope you have already negotiated medical and dental insurance from your employer. It's a must!

Peter.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Richard McDonald Woods on Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:40
Jeroen,

Many, many congratulations on what appears to be a job tailor made to your interests.

I hope that you find the time and enthusiasm to remain one of the main players on this forum. If not, you will be greatly missed.

My and Jan's best wishes to you and the family.

Richard
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:43
From one Dutch Jeroen to another Dutch Jeroen; welcome to the States!

Congratulations with the new job. Sounds right up your street!

Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Fri, 19 Aug 2011 23:51
Today I was thinking more about my admittedly limited perceptions of the contrasts between a European lifestyle and the aspects of European culture that I somewhat understand.  As I tried to put myself in Hoppie's "shoes" and empathetically come to terms with his adventure as he moves to a specific and somewhat unusual part of the USA, it certainly is enough to cause one to realize how many similarities and differences exist in these two locations.  So many things are very different and yet so many things are fundamentally the same or at least similar.

While I only have my own superficial impressions from many business/vacation trips to Europe and discussions with US and European friends and co-workers, I am very excited for Hoppie and family by the sheer adventure and novelty of this move.  A separate layer is of course his job, which seems almost tailor-made for Hoppie's interests and background, as best I can tell with my inevitably modest amount of information and understanding.

Some of the effort will be what I personally label as logistical issues, as have already been mentioned, including health insurance, income tax status, housing arrangements, school system optimization for Hoppies daughter, establishing a new social life, etc, etc, etc.

Other things would be just taking maximum advantage of the adventure of living and vacationing in the USA, with its huge geography and extremely wide range of places to visit and enjoy.  With inexpensive air travel and connections in the airline industry, it should be quite practical to enjoy much vacation and perhaps business trip-supported travel to many interesting places and cities in the US.

I was thinking today about how simple differences such as not having much of an inter or intra-city train service in most of the US really changes how one gets around and thinks about everyday life.  As is well-known, we depend almost exclusively on the personal car and (historically) inexpensive gas plus many interstate expressways to travel.  Even if one flies to a destination, one must rent a car to get around efficiently, but this is very easily done and routine and fairly inexpensive.  

The very large-scale geography of the US is often deceptive, even for natives.  For example, it is about 650 miles from MIami to Atlanta, over 1000 miles from Miami to Washington DC, about 1300 miles from Miami to New York City, and about 2700 miles from Miami to Los Angeles.  The standard Mercator map projection distorts the subjective perception of these distances, of course, making Florida appear much smaller north-to-south than it actually is.

Perhaps the lack of a rational, efficient social services infrastructure in the US is the biggest single category of things one must adjust to.  Not much useful health insurance is available other than employer-provided health insurance through mostly unregulated and very profit-oriented private insurance companies, combined with a very profit-oriented health care and hospital system.  Public education is also problematic with public schools being poor outside of well-off suburbs.  College and grad schools work best for the upper 10% of society, with most state-sponsored institutions being what might be called "diploma factories" with limited emphasis on quality.  Selective colleges and universities are quite different experiences, assuming one's children are admitted, but the cost is now  about 50,000 US dollars per year, for all expenses.  Fortunately, the best private colleges give need-based scholarships based on parents' income and savings.  In many cases, it's actually cheaper to go to Harvard or MIT than a moderate quality state school since aid at state schools is not very available except through student loans.  

The inequality of the US society in terms of income and wealth is quite striking in comparison with much of Europe, as best I can tell from my own casual study.  This is something the US hasn't come to terms with in terms of its overall quality of life and living standards.  If one can become part of the higher income segment of the US society, one can of course enjoy quite a nice standard of living.

Just a few thoughts.  
------------------------------
I am personally very optimistic and also wish for Hoppie and his family the very best in their adventure!  I'm convinced it will be very enjoyable, professionally rewarding, and very interesting!!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Sat, 20 Aug 2011 01:23
We've been living in Kansas City, USA, for just over two years now. And we'll be staying here for a few more years. We came from the Netherlands, but my wife is British/Barbados and we've lived for a number of years in the UK as well.

We are enjoying our US life to the max. Some of the things Phil pointed out are very much in evidence and have surprised us as well.

On a slightly more lighter note, read our US experience on our website:

http://web.me.com/jeroen_dorrestein/Site/Adjusting_to_the_US.html
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Shiv Mathur on Sat, 20 Aug 2011 06:50
You write with wonderful humour, Jeroen.  Enjoyed that !
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 20 Aug 2011 12:04
Thanks to you all for your encouraging comments!

Getting a PPL, plus IFR, ME, whatever, is on the TO DO list. I've never before encountered a job description (ad) for a software engineer with heavy qualifications that also included preferences for these licenses! The company has several aircraft and some employees have already worked themselves up to qualified instructors, which makes it easier. About half the staff is a licensed pilot.

I'm moving in on a H-1B visa, so I'm hard-linked to my job and employer. The green card process will take a while but we'll dive right in, just to be sure. And on her derivative H4, my wife isn't allowed to work. Credit rating... it sucks, but having no rating seems to be better than having a bad rating. The lease on our house is fortunately organised through the company. Most insurances as well. This makes it feasible, though still tough when coming in from the Eastern side of  the pond. Written cheques on paper? wtf?!?  :twisted:

All the tax stuff I'll need to sort out. Florida has specific tax regulations anyway, with so many retired people here. There's no income tax, but instead a heavy property tax, included of course in the rent.

School stuff seems to be taken care off, the neighborhood we'll move to is OK and the associated public school gets thumbs up everywhere. We're well-aware that 100 meters one block distance can/will make a major difference in social standing and family income, which is indeed a shock for European people.

The peculiar specialties of Miami (South-Florida in general) are mostly working out positively for us. Whereas I've read many rants about nobody speaking English and the general Latin "mañana" attitude, this fits in nicely with what I've been used to since I married my wife from Portugal.   :P   And for her, the culture will be much more like "home" than where we live now. Not to speak about the climate -- did I mention that she was born and lived in Cabinda (Angola) until she was five? Of course my professional environment is 99% English, given the aviation business, but the enormous variety of people is refreshing, literally global. I presume that a European has less trouble adjusting to Miami than a typical American?

Anyway, around October 1st I'll move there, and as soon as our house back in the Netherlands has been sold (don't get me started) my wife and daughter will follow. So six weeks to fix up stuff over here.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Tom on Mon, 22 Aug 2011 03:35
If you ever come into So Cal, hit me up for a ride in a C152!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: John Golin on Mon, 22 Aug 2011 03:45
Hey Hoppie - it's 'checks' not 'cheques'. :D
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 22 Aug 2011 05:31
I didn't mean the plastified one!


-JH
Title: Miami people?
Post by: John Golin on Tue, 23 Aug 2011 02:11
I know, but the Yanks spell the paper one 'checks'.  Right up there with Mom, aluminum and nucular.

;)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Tue, 23 Aug 2011 13:43
you forgot this one John G...  Nite
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:17
How is money transferred in Europe these days?  Let's say I buy a widget from Hoppie.  Do we use PayPal?  Certainly I don't mail him cash?
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 00:53
Quote from: Will CronenwettHow is money transferred in Europe these days?

Wire transfer directly from bank to bank. Very simple. No third party.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:02
But how do I tell my bank to send money to your bank?  Is it online?  What if I don't have a computer?
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:26
You fill a small form (online or on paper at the bank) with the account data. Within Germany this method has been used for many decades, perhaps even for  centuries(?) International transfers were less comfortable, but a couple of years ago they simplified it for the EU as well. Now there's actually no difference anymore between national and European wire transfers.

"Wire transfer" is the English term. In German this is literally just "transfer". It has nothing to do with wires or cables. It's simply a direct transfer from bank to bank without a third party in between.


|-|
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:30
I feel like I'm hijacking this thread (apologies to Hoppie), but how is a wire transfer different than a check?  If I write you a check, you take it to your bank, and "cash" it, meaning that my bank transfers the money to your bank.  I guess the difference is that I hand the wire transfer form to you, instead of to your bank, and you could take it to my bank (for cash) or to your bank (for a transfer to your account).  Right?

Also, can you pay for groceries with one of these transfers?
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:32
In the Netherlands, UK and most European countries you can do just about all bank transactions on line. In the Netherlands all you need to know is the other persons name, bank number and place of residence. (and even without the place of residence it'll work)

For international transfers you need another number, so called IBAN. These days all these numbers are printed on your statements or you can get them through look up tables when you're online.

You don't need a computer to receive money coming into your account sent by someone else, but you do need a computer, obviously, to sent on line to someone else. Most Dutch banks have computers set up for customers, so you can just walk in.

Very different and much simpler and convenient then what I have here in the US. Credit cards are much more widely accepted in the US then in some European countries. Even for small purchases, say a cup of coffee.

Hadn't owned a cheque book for many, many years in the Netherlands. Now most of my bills get paid by check/cheque. I have a monthly standing order for paying the rent. What happens is, mybank prints out a cheque with the correct adressee, amount and sents it off to my landlady.

Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:36
Will,

no mail, no walk, no drive. Just words.

You tell your bank to transfer 5 bucks to Hoppie's bank. That's all.

Do you receive a Kontoauszug (http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=&search=kontoauszug) from time to time?

How do you call it? "Account statement"?

On your monthly or weekly "account statement" there will be a -5 buck for Hoppie, and on Hoppie's monthly or weekly "account statement" there will be a +5 from Will.

No coins, no notes. Just prints from the printer. Like any print from a credit card firm. Or PDF online.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:42
But what if I go to Wertkauf or Aldi or my local Biergarten?  How do I transfer funds to the shopkeeper or the waiter?
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:57
Not 100% sure on Germany, but in the Netherlands you would have what is known as a bank pass. Looks like a credit card, but it's issued trough your own bank. Works like a debit card. Slide it through the machine, punch in the pin, confirm the amount and the money goes straight from your account to Aldi or your local Biergarten.

Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 02:13
At the Biergarten probably not, but at Aldi you can use what Jeroen just said, it looks like a credit card. In Germany we use an English name for it: bankcard.

Not all pubs have bankcard readers yet. I don't mind, in shops and pubs I always pay cash. I see no advantage in using plastic cards and typing a PIN into a keyboard while I have the money that I want to spend in my pocket anyway.

I use wire transfer only when the money has to travel more than 3 meters.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 05:57
In the Netherlands, a big campaign was held to move as much cash (notes, coins) transactions to digital as possible. This included, explicitly, biergarten and farmer's market. Portable wireless machines are carried by the waiters and you put in your card, punch in the secret code, and say YES to the amount showed on the display.

The cost of handling cash money by now exceeds the cost of an online instant transaction, so this is why there is so much commercial pressure to go digital.

Since swipe cards have turned out to be extremely easy to copy and abuse, it is all moving towards chip card very rapidly now. Most machines are both swipe and chip, with the swipe slot now being blocked off.

Using your phone and some near field system will inevitably replace all of this in a few years. "Mobile transactions" are taking off big, and most banks have an app in addition to their www bank system.

Even the people that bring you the mail carry chip card readers with online instant verification. You can as easily pay for the delivery of a laundry machine on your doorstep as for a new car at the dealer, groceries in the supermarket, coffee at Starbucks, etc. And yes I bet you can pay for grass, weed & other interesting substances this way as well   :mrgreen:


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 18:26
Chip cards and using cell phones to make purchases just haven't caught on much here in the US.  Not sure why, but that's the general reality.

I almost never use cash, preferring to use my credit card so I can keep track of expenses and keep my finances under some semblance of control.
--------------------------

With interest rates being artificially forced low by the US central bank (aka the Federal Reserve), retail banks are starting to charge customers to accept money for deposit into a checking or savings account.  So far, this is only one big bank (JP Morgan, I think) and only for some commercial customers.    The whole banking scene is badly messed up by the 2008 financial crisis.  Individuals should be able to save money in a secured bank of some sort and earn some sort of fixed interest at least approximating the inflation rate.   As it is, the last time I looked, my checking account interest rate was about 0.1 percent per year.  Fixed savings accounts were about 1% or so per year, at least as far as routinely available accounts go.

I continue to have the uneasy feeling that we've not fundamentally solved or repaired the financial crisis of 2008 but have only pushed it "under the rug".  The major banks are currently  being trashed in the stock markets, consistent with this ad-hoc theory.

Unfortunately (?), the governments don't have the ability to perform another large-scale bailout of these financial institutions.  Yet they continue to fail to have enough stable assets to support their huge "financial engineering" system, set up like a house of cards in recent years.  When do we get to the part of this story where the world's governments effectively reform the financial system?  I fear that no one knows how to do it, and it's clear in the US that the  politicians  are more or less owned through the campaign contributions of the banks and others.  No obvious way out...
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 19:30
The number of law and economics students just went up about 25% over here. We need more lawyers and economists, clearly.

As long as "the industry" pays more for law & economics than for basically anything else, nothing will change.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 20:40
Hi Phil.

Quote from: Phil BunchI almost never use cash, preferring to use my credit card so I can keep track of expenses and keep my finances under some semblance of control.
Some people think it's the other way round :-) When they use credit cards they can't keep track.

Do you see the expenses immediately on your iPhone? When I was a credit card user (stopped using it many years ago) I got a paper mail a couple of weeks later.


Cheers,

|-|ardy
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:36
oh boy now you got me started about credit-cards and the US , get this if you pay the total balance off in full each month they do not apply it directly even though it was a wire transfer (10-14 days before its applied), then if you call them and want to pay by phone i.e. a chq they charge your 14 bucks then there are management fees etc etc: Also if you make more than two payments in any one month they put a hold (freeze) on your account ( they dont tell you this) you find this out when it does not work. its getting to the stage I just use cash and will be down to two cards AMEX and VISA you can wire transfer with amex and ask your local bank to do a international wire transfer via swift(bank to bank) etc they look at you like you have six heads:

And no you do not see your expenses immediately: The object of a using plastic all the time is "big brother" so they can track now wheres the tin foil to stop the buggers reading what little remains of my brain :-)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Thu, 25 Aug 2011 05:30
The whole concept of 'credit score' sets off all alarms with Europeans. Three central commercial companies tracking all bills you pay and the whole commercial world living off these three integers to judge you instantly and, in most cases, without any form of appeal.

"There are some drawbacks when moving to the States".

Luckily I was aware of these, thanks to some helpful people, but it does not make it any more fun. Currently I am trying to beat the infinite loop that to get document A, you need document B, for which you need C, which you get with A.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:29
Hi Hoppie

 and one last thing get your degree qualified I failed to do and it cost 1100 bucks to say that I can read and writer english to level 4 the INS will want this and did I tell you that you will finger printed by four different gov agency's  none of which share the info with each other... and learn spanish!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Thu, 25 Aug 2011 15:35
In order to get any visa at all I have had to have every possible qualification inspected, luckily this has all been done properly now. Finger prints have also been taken repeatedly, but I think by now this has more or less been unified thanks to the terrorists. Spanish? Tell that to my Portuguese wife!


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Shiv Mathur on Thu, 25 Aug 2011 15:50
Quote from: the mad hatterHi Hoppie

 and one last thing get your degree qualified I failed to do and it cost 1100 bucks to say that I can read and writer english to level 4 the INS will want this and did I tell you that you will finger printed by four different gov agency's  none of which share the info with each other... and learn spanish!

I guess punctuation and plurals are level 5!   :D

Sorry ... just being silly!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Thu, 25 Aug 2011 17:40
Quote from: Hardy HeinlinHi Phil.

Quote from: Phil BunchI almost never use cash, preferring to use my credit card so I can keep track of expenses and keep my finances under some semblance of control.
Some people think it's the other way round :-) When they use credit cards they can't keep track.

Do you see the expenses immediately on your iPhone? When I was a credit card user (stopped using it many years ago) I got a paper mail a couple of weeks later.


Cheers,

|-|ardy

Hardy,

My typical pattern of charge card monitoring is to login to my bank's charge card page and review the listed purchases each day.   Posts are 1-2 days old.  My theory is that this will catch any fraudulent charges in time to stop the problem quickly.  I have only found a problem one time, and the bank's fraud department was very responsive.  After some discussion and verification of my real recent charges they simply issued me a new credit card, which arrived in a day or two.

Also, by charging almost everything, each month when my partner and I go through the month's shared expense items, we see how our budget is working out. Also, we've decided that each of us will separately pay for their personal hobbies (e.g., my macro photography hobby, flight sims, etc), and charging everything makes this easy.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Thu, 25 Aug 2011 18:26
@ Shiv, yes that is level five maybe even level  seven! I type that way because my fingers are accented :-)

@ Hoppie, Well then you are all set and good to go fine sir :-)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Fri, 26 Aug 2011 02:16
Quote from: Jeroen HoppenbrouwersThree central commercial companies tracking all bills you pay and the whole commercial world living off these three integers to judge you instantly and, in most cases, without any form of appeal.

Well, it's not quite that bad.  No transactions are reported routinely to the credit rating agencies except money you borrow.  For example, if you use a debit card for all purchases, none of them will ever be reported to the ratings bureaus.

And having a good credit score is really not that difficult at all, as long as you live within your means and pay your bills on time.  The ratings themselves are neither arbitrary or unpredictable.  And there is a decent appeal mechanism... you hear horror stories, but then again you hear horror stories about aviation, too. :-)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Fri, 26 Aug 2011 06:40
I thought that paying the monthly rent also went into the credit score? And the monthly utilities?


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:09
No sir as your employer has that covered, the only way you can build your score is to get one of two things a telephone (cell) and a fuel card.

@ Will yeah it is, you know full well that your credit score is everything here 820 gets ya 3.25 650 gets ya 8.2 on a 30 year mortgage... Have you ever tried to appeal something on your credit report that is factually incorrect it sure its removed at 30 days then 2 months later its back again  oh boy I am getting started think it best I sit on my fingers :-)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:45
I've heard of people taking out a small personal loan that they really don't need, perhaps secured by a fixed bank deposit/savings account.  Then, one pays it off dilligently, and before you know it, you can get a low maximum credit amount credit card, also perhaps secured by a fixed bank deposit.  Charge a lot of stuff, pay all the bill off each month, and before too long one can obtain a normal, unsecured credit card.

I am not so sure Hoppie will really have to cope with all this stuff too much though since he's been hired internationally by an established employer, has educational credentials, etc, etc.  This will all show up on his credit card application, so I predict that at worst they will just provide a moderate credit card limit for a few months or so, then miraculously it will be raised, and before too long he'll have a zillion dollar credit card limit like all other massively indebted Americans (faint grins).  

I've known many Europeans who temporarily immigrated to the US, at the request of their American employer, and none of them expressed any concerns about such things.   I can see it being a problem if one doesn't have credible employment, and that would show up on the credit card application, and be flagged as a very different situation where one's credit rating and credit history would be very important.

Just a few thoughts.  I'm not very knowledgeable about such things other than as an American citizen.

Another thought - perhaps the company will provide a corporate credit card, usually through American Express.  Once that's been issued, the credit history and credibility would be established and other credit rating and credit history things would be acceptable.  Perhaps they could provide such a card to help with the move, even if it isn't needed right away?  Again, just a thought.  My employer required us to always use the company credit card for all business travel, as  a part of their deal with American Express I assume.  I don't think they wanted us to use the thing for personal expenses but technically the card was issued to the individual and not the company and had to be paid and managed by the individual.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:19
@ Phil yes you are right there I would suggest get a European AMEX then transfer to an american one oddly enough... AMEX is the one company here in the states that treats you like  an adult... Yes they report to the credit-reporting companies that are owned by the banks... but there is also a big issue as well

AMEX has no preset spending limit :-) however on your report it shows as maxed out even though it must be paid in full each month.

His employment and education make no difference to available credit in the beginning because he has no established credit and because he is establishing him self it is going to take years 2-3 and it is going to hurt

Just a car loan is going to cost him double figures in interest... Sometimes it is just not worth it. I can see it not being an issue for those of a temporary nature but permante is another story  you are lucky you grew up with it  imagine what its like when you are well established in another country and NOTHING transfers

B
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Fri, 26 Aug 2011 19:06
Guys, it does not matter any bit that I am hired by a real employer, or that I have several degrees, or that I have a good history in Europe. I could as well come from Mars. I get absolutely zero credit, zilch, and the same for any discount on insurances due to a no-claim history. This is all as expected, but I play innocent and just try anyway -- forget it.

My rent & utilities are not through my employer, though the employer introduced me to the land lord which got me past some typical hurdles. Would this still not count towards any credit score?

In my particular case, the real problem is that my Dutch backup (such as credit card) is also being immediately canceled by the Dutch bank as they lose their grip on me as soon as I cross the border. This is probably different from the foreign job assignments Phil talks about. I managed to get an extra two months that are technically uncovered except by good faith, for the rest (in the Netherlands) I'll need a locked deposit, card limit times months I want it, ahead of time.

Luckily Europeans are not at all used to living on credit. I don't need a credit card -- I just need a card (to avoid hauling cash around or littering the world with written signatures on dead trees). The debit card system is just appearing in the States, it seems. The bank that I eventually will open an account with (need SSN and FL driver's license first!) proudly claims that the use of this card is free in Publix. wft?!

Another bypass that I forged was to find the US office of my local bank in the Netherlands, and they are willing to open a US bank account for me (California-based) without me having a SSN or US driver's license. This helps a lot to get firm ground over there.

As you can see, you really have to start from scratch, but if you know this and prepare, it can be done.

Concerning getting a EU Amex and then transfering it: I tried already but this can only be done after having had it for over one year, so too late now. And it would not have added to initial credit ratings.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Fri, 26 Aug 2011 19:38
I can confirm Jeroen experience from my own experience when I moved to the US. I'm on an expad contract and a L1 (petitioned) visa. We are one of the largest international telecom companies in the world and employ well over 14000 staff here in the US.

Doesn't make a blind bit of difference. I could not open a bank account / apply for a credit card etc. Luckily for me my employer has an arrangement with a local bank and they will help out, get your account set up, get you a credit card etc. etc.

Also, I was advised to take out a (car) loan immediately and pay off in monthly installment. Didn't need the loan, but took it anyway just to built credit rating.

I managed to hold on to all my Dutch bank accounts and credit cards, but Paypal NL gave me the boot

Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Fri, 26 Aug 2011 20:08
Hoppie , you have to ask your land lord to report your payments to the THREE credit reporting agencies: Plus like FD said buy a car anything cheap so it reports: After this DO NOT apply for any credit until you have a score of at least 720 and above.  It is very hard to do things with cash in the US it is card based (credit not debit): The bank account you are opening is not a "FULL" bank account but opened as a W9 completion which in turn they have to send off to get approval. Now the interesting thing here is you will not be able to use your cheque book because they will run the cheque through a company called equity cheque and trans union and as you have no financial history history issue they will decline your chq! (but you can use it to pay bills by post) Now about th debit card lets say you stay at a hotel for three days and the cost is 300 bucks per night they the hotel will put a hold on your funds for twice that amount = 1800 bucks now you sign the bill for 900 but the hold on the difference will not reflect for another 7 days in the interium you have spent X and spent more than 1k now you bank will put an automatic freeze on it without telling you in-advance here is real world example I paid my credit card off in full whist in the states I flew to  Rome went tp pay for dinner and my card had been frozen because I paid it in full plus it was a transaction outside of the US did not matter that I do this all the time in short all banks in the US are bastards.

May I suggest that you give your fullest consideration to retaining a dutch creditcard (in simple terms you are fk without it)...and they can issue one in dollars as opposed to euros or NLG... If your local bank will not do it find one that will before you leave, I know I have said much on this topic I have been here over 8 years now and the first 5 were very  hard financially  I did not have a micky mouse postion with a micky mouse employeer or salary.. Here it does not matter what your education is or how much you are worth someone earning 10k a year can almost have unlimited credit if they score well as opposed to someone that earns 400k plus with a low score and lots of residual income will have very little credit.

Now when you are asked for ID they mean your drivers license: In closing you are actually way better off asking your employer to to 1099 you not W2 mine did it :-) And someone mentioned that their company asked them to take out an american express card in their name for business WTF are you your employers bank say they fire you and don't pay the bill you are left holding it not cool. The other thing is ID theft is huge in the States always ask why they need your SS# schools and doctors do not need it they can give you another identifier do not give it out unless the world is about to end! Be very careful with the SS# because my daughter when she was three had her identity stolen (from medical records) and she had cars phones and a house and a whole lot of other stuff, they changed her address to a different state etc etc in short it took over 3 years to sort out.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: John Golin on Sat, 27 Aug 2011 00:33
Wow. Sorry any US'ians, but sounds like your Financial, Credit and Banking System really really sucks. :(
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 27 Aug 2011 06:46
... the obvious answer ... it sucks so hard that it draws quite a bit of foreign financial systems with it!   :mrgreen:
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:05
If I ask dumb questions, answer by adding interpunction    :-)

Quote from: the mad hatterHoppie , you have to ask your land lord to report your payments to the THREE credit reporting agencies.
Good tip. Will this cost him anything extra, or just a stamp and envelope?

QuotePlus like FD said buy a car anything cheap so it reports: After this DO NOT apply for any credit until you have a score of at least 720 and above.
Aha, minus credit points also exist. Somebody from a US bank told me that it is very easy to notice when your credit rating becomes significant: you magically start receiving mail offers for credit cards and loans from companies you've never even heard of.

QuoteThe bank account you are opening is not a "FULL" bank account but opened as a W9 completion which in turn they have to send off to get approval. Now the interesting thing here is you will not be able to use your cheque book because they will run the cheque through a company called equity cheque and trans union and as you have no financial history history issue they will decline your chq! (but you can use it to pay bills by post) Now about th debit card lets say you stay at a hotel for three days and the cost is 300 bucks per night they the hotel will put a hold on your funds for twice that amount = 1800 bucks now you sign the bill for 900 but the hold on the difference will not reflect for another 7 days in the interium you have spent X and spent more than 1k now you bank will put an automatic freeze on it without telling you in-advance.
%$@%#@ grrr

QuoteMay I suggest that you give your fullest consideration to retaining a dutch creditcard (in simple terms you are fk without it)...and they can issue one in dollars as opposed to euros or NLG... If your local bank will not do it find one that will before you leave.
Point taken. I'll make this a top priority for the next weeks.

QuoteNow when you are asked for ID they mean your drivers license: In closing you are actually way better off asking your employer to to 1099 you not W2.
Since I come in on a H-1B visa, I don't know what can be done here, but I'll ask.

QuoteThe other thing is ID theft is huge in the States always ask why they need your SS# schools and doctors do not need it they can give you another identifier do not give it out unless the world is about to end! Be very careful with the SS# because my daughter when she was three had her identity stolen (from medical records) and she had cars phones and a house and a whole lot of other stuff, they changed her address to a different state etc etc
Thanks. Cynically: my wife and daughter won't even get a SSN, as they are on H4 and SSN is strictly related to having a job; H4 means they are not allowed to work, so no SSN "needed".


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:23
We're lucky as I'm on a L1 visa and that meant my wife could work as well.
Not having a SSN is a real pain. As long as you have yours you can make it work, but you need the SSN for lots of things. for instance getting the utility contracts established. Apply for your SSN ASAP as it will make life much easier.

Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 27 Aug 2011 15:47
Not by design, but I will be in the States about three months by myself with my family still back 'home', so I do have the time to sort out things.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Sun, 28 Aug 2011 01:55
I don't know about landlords reporting on-time rent payments to the ratings agencies.  Does that make any sense?  Depending on who your landlord is, they may have never heard of such a thing.  In general, payments that are in collections (i.e. 90+ days overdue) and referred to a collections agency will be reported to the ratings agencies, but I bet most landlords wouldn't even know how to send records of an on-time payment.  And anyway, the ratings agencies only care about debt.  They don't track rent, since that's not borrowed money -- only if you're 90+ days late and not paying (which then becomes debt).

Hoppie, you have some good suggestions here for building a good credit rating, but remember that it's only important if you need to borrow money.  If, like a good Dutchman, you pay cash for cars and houses and groceries, your credit rating will mean nothing.

And there are local banks in the USA that will still assess your risk individually.  Most likely, these won't be the big chain banks... but most cities will have a few independent local banks -- and even better, credit unions -- that will  let you sit down with a guy and talk it out, who will then come to a conclusion about their risk of lending to you based on what data they have, and their gut feeling.

I still think the cheapest way to get credit is to apply for a credit card (even a horrible one at 25% interest, like people with bad or non-existent credit scores get) and carry a trivial balance of $5 or $10 per month.  That costs you next to nothing, and builds your score automatically.

Lastly, doing things to BUILD your score is fairly easy, much easier than correcting MISTAKES.  So a light credit history (due to a recent arrival in the USA) in the scheme of things is much better than someone who is 90+ days late on a credit cards that have been maxed out.

With all of this taken together: I say don't worry, you'll likely be fine.

And banks LOVE lending money, they want you as a customer.  So if credit is really important to you, go to a local bank, get direct deposit for your wages, open a checking and savings account, and then ask the banker, "what else do I need to do in order to borrow enough for a house/car/747 simulator?"  And follow that guy's advice.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sun, 28 Aug 2011 07:32
Sounds reasonable, Will, thanks!

I am indeed not so much looking for credit, or a credit card, but for a widely accepted payment card. And as far as I know this is nearly always still a credit or charge card, as debit cards are slooooowly coming in and aren't backed by the large credit card companies. Maybe VISA has a debit card that slots into their credit card system? The idea is that I could pay wherever they accept credit cards (pretty much everywhere) without any additional hassle. Yes I am a spoiled European brat.

Credit scores also are used to get a lease on a rental house, but luckily I could bypass that step. It would have meant several months of rent paid ahead of time, more than the usual three.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Sun, 28 Aug 2011 09:46
Debit cards that draw from your savings or checking account have been ubiquitous for quite some time.  I've carried one for at least the last 10 years.  They have a little "VISA" logo on them, and can be used anywhere that a credit card can be used, except that the cost of your purchase is deducted straight from your bank account.  That's the main way I pay for things.  They're usually provided at no cost to you.  This has been standard practice for the last decade or so, and I've never heard of a large bank that doesn't have a VISA/debit card option.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:43
Quote from: Will CronenwettThey have a little "VISA" logo on them, and can be used anywhere that a credit card can be used, except that the cost of your purchase is deducted straight from your bank account.
Aha! This is what I could not yet verify to be true! Thanks, it basically solves all remaining issues.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:37
My bank, Texans Credit Union, has these debit cards as well. Actually I have a combined Mastercard credit and debit card. So with every payment I make the machine will ask whether it's credit or debit.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:39
After learning the correct terminology, there happens to be a complete ecosystem of prepaid credit cards which also offers good workarounds.

Two drawbacks become apparent:
1. nobody acceps these cards for car rental deposits/guarantees and hotel reservations, as they aren't covered by anything except the balance on the associated account which can evaporate instantly;
2. they totally lack any insurance against abuse, so if somebody learns the card information and reproduces it to make a transaction, you lost your money (up to your balance, obviously).

Also, these cards can easily be maxed out if somebody puts a reservation block on your card, which typically happens when you want to purchase fuel. The reservation may take days to unlock in some cases.

Not such a problem if you know it, and don't let them lock up the card but just immediately take USD 20 off it and program the pump for this.

These cards seem acceptable as a stop-gap measure until a universally working US credit card becomes available.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:07
Quote from: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers
Quote from: Will CronenwettThey have a little "VISA" logo on them, and can be used anywhere that a credit card can be used, except that the cost of your purchase is deducted straight from your bank account.
Aha! This is what I could not yet verify to be true! Thanks, it basically solves all remaining issues.


Jeroen

I agree and couldn't follow the discussion about how debit cards are not available in the US.  My bank, a fairly large national and multinational bank, required that I accept a debit card to be paid automatically from checking in order to open checking and savings accounts when we moved to Maine.  I never use the thing since I like another megabank credit card's features better for purchase tracking and also to gain access to single-use credit card numbers for online shopping.

Glad this point of confusion is clarified now.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Tue, 30 Aug 2011 05:00
OH my my my  I will say it again and again, your credit score effects everything you do in the States everything plain and simple if your score is low you pay extra for all insurance, higher deposits on everything... And what this 90 days that rubbish its 30 days late and it hits your credit report then what happens is your bank pulls your credit report sees your late and ups your rates that 30 day late is not removed form your report for three years then there is the 60 and 90 day lates these are diliquents and stay on your report for 7 years.

Landlords know how to report I figure they would have a management company :-) and you can bet your left testicle they are reporting.

you can get a little visa logo pre payed card from walmart but why would you do that? that's throwing money away a fee to load it a fee to use it and then a monthly fee and if you do not use it they keep the money and you get it back by a lenghty process not a cool thing.

OH hell poor hoppie they have starter cards here DO NOT TAKE ONE why? because you will get a 300 dollars limit (because you have no credit) a 175 dollars account activation fee a monthy management fee to be paid in advance of 25 dollars and then thats what you have left on a 300 dollars limit ad an interest rate that will scare you

Apply for a fuel card and apply for amex stay away from big banks they will shaft you without any lubricant ( can you tell I am a fan of the US banking system)... and credit unions they still want to see your credit report they will all nod nicely at you and smile but give you nothing, or if they do and its a big "IF" you will pay the one thing they know how to do is charge no idea on service.

Your wife will need a SS# you can not do anything without one really like drive a car... ask them to stamp it work not authorised
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 30 Aug 2011 05:57
I love advice   :mrgreen:

Rest assured that everything that is said over here by everybody goes into the flight plan, and will be used to maneuver around the thunderstorms and presumed CAT areas. Preparation is key for any journey!

Social security numbers aren't handed out any longer for anything else but work. Slowly the system is accepting other numbers where previously just SSN was acceptable, although sometimes you need to show a document which states that a SSN was refused and it is acceptable to use, say, the ITIN. This in particular holds for driving licenses -- SSN just for driving license is a big NO-NO these days.

H4 people aren't in the social security system, they don't get SSN, period. I presume they barely qualify as 'people' anyway.


Jeroen

PS. I got myself a European prepaid MasterCard -- no transaction fees, no hassle, just a simple key into the US card system that has a spending limit equal to what happens to be in the card account. I think it won't work for rental car deposits and such, but for 10 euros per year overall cost it should do for the simple stuff until I get some native plastic payment to work. We'll see.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:17
... just printed my 'emigration' boarding pass ... here we go!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 1 Oct 2011 07:33
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 1049
Location: EHGR

So many bureaucratic changes to do ... :-)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 1 Oct 2011 10:10
Grmbl.     :mrgreen:
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Sat, 1 Oct 2011 17:17
Best of luck to you!  I hope America treats you well.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: John Golin on Sun, 2 Oct 2011 00:24
Yaw'l keep in touch now!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 6 Dec 2011 19:21
Today I got my license to kill   \\o/

Zero errors on the theoretical part.
Two errors on the practical: forgot to put the blinker on when parking in between four pylons on a footballfield of asphalt with no other cars, and same when doing the three-point turn in between painted lines on the footballfield of asphalt.

Major victory: passing without having paper proof with me that the car was actually registered in Florida (due to a wrong address on that paper so the office took it back and there is no replacement paper yet).

Next license should go in the vertical plane as well.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Tue, 6 Dec 2011 19:37
Congratulations. I had to go through this rigmarole as well. seems they really tested your skill level. I had to drive round the block, took all of four minutes.

Zero errors on the written too, which called for many "awesome, outstanding" calls from the various DMV employees. Just bear in mind that if you move state you have to get a new license!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Wed, 7 Dec 2011 01:43
Florida, especially Miami-Dade county which is notorious for extremely bad driving, seems to be slightly more rigorous. My practical test involved about 11 minutes. Three to four on the asphalt football field near the very quiet shopping center where the drivers license center is based, and eight driving around it on residential roads.

While waiting in line for the final administratrivia, I studied the practical test score form which the examiner had marked up. There are predefined problem spots such as: "Repeatedly trying to start the engine while it is in gear" and "losing control after backing out of the parking stall." I kid you not.

I won't move state any time soon. I can't go anywhere but North, anyway   :-)


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Wed, 7 Dec 2011 19:11
I grew up in Atlanta, and the high-school driver's ed course I took one summer spent almost the whole time practicing parallel parking.  Thus, we all became Olympic-class experts in this task.  In Atlanta, this was 30 percent of the practical exam, and it was hard to pass the test without being proficient in parallel parking.  To this day, I am still very skilled at this art form (grins).

I had trouble with the road sign test part of the practical driving test - the course in Atlanta included a section where 15-20 signs were simultaneously displayed and the state policemen who executed the test asked a vague question about one of the signs, but I wasn't sure which sign he was talking about.  I answered a couple of questions incorrectly because of this confusion, which meant I needed 100% score on the other parts of the driving test.  Thanks to my great parallel parking skills, I still passed, and thus could join my other 16-year-old friends in having a driver's license.  As with most other US states, very young people can usually obtain full unlimited licenses very easily.  If you study the written test material diligently you can score 100% on that test in most cases.

It's amazing how that event imprints itself on one's memory banks.  I think part of this is due to the test being administered by a real state police office, which was stressful for this 16-year-old person.

My partner has an even more curious driving history.  She never learned to drive a car in her teen years for various reasons, but learned to ride a motorcycle in her twenties, and obtained a motorcycle license normally.  This was all she needed until her mid-30s when she needed a car license too. She was able to take advantage of a loophole in her state's laws that allowed her to skip the car driving test and add a car qualification onto the motorcycle license.

--------------

Now that you have a driver's license, you can probably get a concealed carry handgun permit in Florida.  Might as well - everyone else down there has one.  You don't want to be the only person accidentally attending a shopping mall shootout without a gun!  

Unless they discriminate against "foreigner", you can probably easily get such a permit.  Most US states are now "shall issue" states wherein unless they have a specific, major reason not to issue a permit, they are required to issue the permit.  Typically, all you need is a couple of forms of ID and to fill out a fairly long but straightforward application and answer "no" to all the disqualifying questions.  There is probably a $30 or so application fee, too, and processing may take a few weeks.  Some states do require attending an informal handgun course, sometimes featuring a little practice shooting, too.

Even machine guns can be licensed for personal ownership, but that requires a Federal permit and some more red tape.

I gather that Europe doesn't look at handgun ownership, much less concealed carry permits, quite so liberally!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Wed, 7 Dec 2011 21:33
QuoteNow that you have a driver's license, you can probably get a concealed carry handgun permit in Florida. Might as well - everyone else down there has one. You don't want to be the only person accidentally attending a shopping mall shootout without a gun!

I know I can here in Missouri. But I choose not to. Even though I've been living in the USA for nearly 2.5 years I maintain my European outlook on guns.

Statistically speaking it seems you're more likely to get shot when you own a gun then when you don't.

Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Wed, 7 Dec 2011 22:53
I now realize that I should have made it clear that I would strongly prefer a much more European approach to firearms instead of the now radically deregulated US approach.  This viewpoint was so deeply in my thoughts that I failed to notice that I hadn't mentioned this not so minor detail in my post, above.  

Please excuse this gross oversight on my part!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Wed, 7 Dec 2011 23:37
No need to apoligize. This is one of those (many) areas where my wife and I see major differences between Europe and the US. I would not call one or the other good or bad, but I do have my own preferences. But it really comes downs to a fundamentally different outlook on society and individual freedoms.

So here's my US experience on guns: About a year ago I had my (adult) children visiting us here in Kansas City. My boys wanted to go and do some shooting, so we went to the local shooting range.

Told the guy that my sons wanted to do some shooting and could they get some instructions perhaps. Guys puts a gun and a box of amo in their hands and says: have fun boys!

So I tell him, that they've never shot a gun yet. So he looks at them and says: Boys, you be carefull and have fun! I checked with him about selling me (the foreigner) a gun. And he said, sure no problem. I just need formal US ID, and some proof that you lived here for at least three months. E.g. utility bills.

I don't have anything against guns perse. I used to hunt back in Europe. But my shot gun did not come out of its gun safe, unless I was going to actually hunt or practice. Would have been illegal in fact to have it for instance in the back of my car if I was not going to hunt or practice.

The idea of being able to carry a concealed weapon is pretty alien in most, if not all, of Europe.  

And as some countries have proven, it's not necessarily the number of guns in private hands that's the problem.

Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Thu, 8 Dec 2011 02:22
No way.

I'm in Miami. That's supposed to be dangerous. When everybody else starts shooting at each other in the shopping center, I simply will duck and wait.

As long as others keep shooting, nobody will notice me.


Jeroen

(http://images.wikia.com/internationalbusiness/images/a/a1/Miami_Vice_.jpg)




I should organize a photo session with a borrowed automatic weapon and the company's Citation   :mrgreen:
Title: Miami people?
Post by: martin on Thu, 8 Dec 2011 21:04
...in the meantime...

(http://www.saunalahti.fi/erdel/picks/MiamiViceHop.jpg)

Perfect fit, I'd say.

M "I am I" E.
EFTO
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Thu, 8 Dec 2011 21:30
8)

Well I do have this one...

(http://www.hoppie.nl/tmp/N800BF.jpg)
My other car is a Kia
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Fri, 9 Dec 2011 13:14
Ah...is that a bandolier strapped around your chest?  (grins)

Perhaps you've found a way to participate in the "armed pilot" program that the US has implemented, allowing commercial airline pilots to pack heat?!?!  (more grins)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,444887,00.html
Title: Miami people?
Post by: the mad hatter on Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:18
naaaaaaaaaaa don't to the APP it hurts really really hurts
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Tue, 3 Jan 2012 13:10
This would sure be a test of the gun rights crowd's political power!

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/03/business/arguing-the-merits-of-guns-on-airplanes.html?ref=todayspaper
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 3 Jan 2012 16:17
... the Transportation Security Administration director, John S. Pistole, said recently ...

WFT??!   :D
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 3 Jan 2012 16:28
I propose to do away with the oxygen masks in the cabin (hey, how often are they needed anyway?) and put loaded but uncocked 9mm Brownings in those lockers. When somebody starts shooting, the lockers open (either manually by flight crew action, or automatically by the decompression of the hull or by a gunshot audio detector) and 200 armed people can take care of the problem.

That will put an end to those terrorists.

Each aircraft will have 10-20 seats that do not have a gun, but keep the oxygen mask. It costs $50 to get such a seat and you need to sign a declaration that the airline is not responsible for you being shot after the guns get released.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Wed, 4 Jan 2012 17:15
Quote from: Jeroen HoppenbrouwersI propose to do away with the oxygen masks in the cabin (hey, how often are they needed anyway?) and put loaded but uncocked 9mm Brownings in those lockers. When somebody starts shooting, the lockers open (either manually by flight crew action, or automatically by the decompression of the hull or by a gunshot audio detector) and 200 armed people can take care of the problem.

That will put an end to those terrorists.

Each aircraft will have 10-20 seats that do not have a gun, but keep the oxygen mask. It costs $50 to get such a seat and you need to sign a declaration that the airline is not responsible for you being shot after the guns get released.


Jeroen

Sounds good to me!  The airlines will no doubt jump on this opportunity to make money, but will also charge for access to your overhead firearm.  Ammo also costs extra, and even more if you don't pre-buy your stash.  If you wait til the shooting starts, ammo becomes VERY expensive, as does access to your 9mm.    And they could also sell access to body armor.  If you want rifle-proof ceramic armor chest plates like the military uses, that costs extra too.

Sounds like time for someone to write some patents!!

-------
I wonder how many airline pilots became trained to carry firearms?  I believe the airlines were required to allow them to do this if they wanted to.  Not sure I would want to step out of the cockpit to engage in a gun fight in the passenger compartment, though.

I suspect that pilots with military backgrounds (especially with combat experience) would look at this specific issue much differently than pilots without military training.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:52
Jeroen,

Any preliminary impressions of the US or your region in Florida that you'd like to share?  Just wondering if there were any real surprises, good or bad.  Do you miss winter and having seasons at all?

When do you begin taking your private jet pilot training? (grins)  I would claim that you'd only need a few hours of transition training to convert from the 747-400 (more grins).

I hope everything has settled down after the move and that you're enjoying your new job.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:28
Bad timing, Phil. I am currently back in the Netherlands, trying to deflate a house inventory to fit into one twenty feet sea container. Cold, dark, and increasingly uncomfortable in the house. But very much looking forward to the actual move with my family.

This Sunday evening we touch down at KMIA. That will be the start of something quite different!


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Roel Raeven on Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:49
QuoteThis Sunday evening we touch down at KMIA
...and I'm touching down at KDTW on monday for 8 days. I'm sure Miami is the better place to go during wintertime.
I hope you and your family will enjoy the stay over there.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:06
And I'm touching down in PEK tomorrow for 2 weeks!  Safe travels, everyone.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 28 Jan 2012 07:26
The house has been gzipped into the TEU and we've waved it out of the street yesterday afternoon. Now the task of keeping alive for one more day and night in an empty house before we board the plane for Miami.

It's freezing over here. Hmmm, time to go.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Richard McDonald Woods on Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:59
Bon voyage, Jeroen and family!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Will on Tue, 7 Feb 2012 04:14
Safe journey!
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Tue, 7 Feb 2012 23:05
You should just abandon your family's winter clothing - you will probably only need a very light jacket a few times per year!  No need for long-sleeved shirts!  No more winter or any other seasons!!!

Good luck with your household move and journey.

(Disclosure:  I lived in Sarasota, Florida for a year, during my first year in college.)
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:22
Got in. Just too much going on to hang around on the forums. Container approaching the port, ETA on the 16th, then customs clearing and the big haul.

Interesting times.


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen D on Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:14
Looks like your container is making good time!
It took our stuff 4 weeks to come across the pond to the Midwest from the Netherlands.
All the best with the unpacking and settling in.
Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: cavaricooper on Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:27
Jeroen-

Welcome to the USA!  I'm just a few hours away in Tampa, so once you are all settled in, let me know and we will drive down for drinks and dinner.  North Miami Beach is a pretty place to hang out and relax.

All the best with your move!

Carl Avari-Cooper
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:55
... and with 9 deg C (48 deg F) outside and a stiff polar wind, the Miami mythe of "always warm" definitely does not hold up. We've put the heater on indoors!


Jeroen
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Holger Wende on Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:46
Quote from: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers... and with 9 deg C (48 deg F) outside and a stiff polar wind ...
... pythons dont feel comfortable either :evil: .

Anyway have a good start and enjoy the new challenges.

Cheers, Holger
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:21
Quote from: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers... and with 9 deg C (48 deg F) outside and a stiff polar wind, the Miami mythe of "always warm" definitely does not hold up. We've put the heater on indoors!


Jeroen

Heck, I just checked your weather forecast and see that Miami is supposed to reach almost 80 F(27 C) later in the week!  Many summers we barely reach 80 in Maine, where I live.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:58
Maybe, but it is now 8 deg C, 47 deg F.

Where is my coat @%#$@%?
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:17
The latest mass shooting in the US is provoking much attention from the major media, including the TV news channels.  I don't see any signs yet that the US voters intend to follow the UK and Australia into requiring the government to purchase or confiscate the approximately 300 million firearms citizens now own.  With recent Supreme Court rulings establishing firearms ownership as a Constitutional right in some senses, it would seemingly be hard to change things much.  A few states make it very hard to own or carry firearms, though (NY, Massachusetts, and a few others).

There is an interesting set of data, downloadable into a spreadsheet, published by the UK Guardian newspaper today:

Articles here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

http://www.motherjones.com/print/186991

A UK Guardian-sponsored spreadsheet with per-country firearms and homicide rate data is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdExSbktqRWpLMjNUMkFGVk5VODRyTnc#gid=0

I became interested in statistical data analysis, etc, during grad school, continuing during my career in R&D.  Thus, I couldn't resist doing some informal analysis of these firearms ownership rates vs homicide rates data around the countries of the world.  

At first glance, I don't see much if any statistically significant relationship between firearms ownership and firearms homicide rates.  I need to work with the data more, though, since some countries have zero or near-zero civilian firearms ownership rates, and this makes some data analyses more complex.  It is certainly very striking how unusual the US is in terms of firearms ownership rate (88.8 firearms per 100 people vs an average of about 30).  

If you're interested in such data, in light of current events, I suggest you plot "Firearms owned per 100 people" vs "Firearm Homicide Rate per 100K population" in Excel or whatever.  It's interesting to plot  various combinations on a linear-linear as well as a semi-log plot.  

Of course crimes, including homicide, are not mere statistics, but are tragic beyond measure in so many senses.
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:04
Also plot traffic casualties per state against gun casualties. "Interesting".
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Mon, 17 Dec 2012 00:41
More data here, this time related to the ***shocking*** numbers of professed Jedi Knights in the UK!!  (grins)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/datablog/interactive/2012/dec/11/census-religion
Title: Miami people?
Post by: Richard McDonald Woods on Mon, 17 Dec 2012 09:10
I find it heartening that just over 25% stated either agnostic or atheist. I expect this is a very different result than would be produced in N America.