Watching the Easyjet show on ITV and noticed the pilots all have different headsets. Some wear the over-ear Bose, some small in-ear ones and others the on-ear Telex ones. I find the over-ear quite bulky and the press against my glasses too much. If you could fly for real, what headset would you use?
https://www.cdw.com/product/Sennheiser-Culture-SC-30-USB-ML-headset/3091259?cm_cat=google&cm_ite=3091259&cm_pla=NA-NA-Sennheiser_TL&cm_ven=acquirgy&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMIwsyzr_ig4gIViFcNCh2FzgeuEAQYBCABEgIf5PD_BwE:G:s&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwsyzr_ig4gIViFcNCh2FzgeuEAQYBCABEgIf5PD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!4223!3!198553132074!!!g!318617693895!
Look at this one.
Cheers,
Jon
Personally (at least when flying my desk!) I have always much preferred the open-backed Telex style cans for exactly the same reason as you (I find the closed cans somewhat on the heavy side, uncomfortable with my glasses and I feel too 'sealed off' from the outside world).
At work we have Sennheiser HMEC closed on-ear (they don't go over the whole ear but they are not open-backed style cans like the Telex Airman) headsets very similar if not identical to those used as standard issue in some airlines and I cannot stand them - they weigh a ton, the cables are heavy and pull the headset unnaturally, they are prone to breakage, they're particularly uncomfortable as a glasses- wearer and if you wear both ears you can forget conversing with anybody sat either side of you or indeed being able to hear and keep up with anything which is going on around you.
Other than that they're great :D
Having said the above, obviously for real flying especially for professionals doing it day in, day out, a decent set of noise-cancelling cans is a very good idea from a hearing protection point of view and I can understand the attraction of full closed-back over-ear designs for that reason. In light aircraft I have had the opportunity to play with a set of Bose A20s and I was very impressed with both the wearability and the effect of the active noise cancelling. The price, however, is somewhat eye-watering!
The Telex headsets that come with the ship should be used. A lot of guys have really expensive headsets and are pretty proud of them, but they're not matched with the rest of the ship's headsets and often I can't hear what they're saying when they transmit. Plus, most of the newer pilots came from the regionals where they apparently used hot mics full-time. The 767 wasn't designed to do that, so it leaves the IRP or check airman out of the loop because they can't hear a word they're saying. This was an issue of discussion at a check airman meeting yesterday and it's going to stop. No matter how expensive your headset is, or how awesome it worked on another aircraft, if the other guys in the cockpit can't hear what you're transmitting it's no good.
What is a "hot mic"? Is it an audio system that uses noise gates? You mean their noise gate threshold is set too high so that their audio output is muted when they are speaking at a volume level below that threshold?
When I used such systems, many years ago, I always made a click noise with my tongue before speaking. That opened the gate clearly and assured that the first vowel in my sentence wasn't muted :-)
So you may hear ...
Click-flapsfive
... instead of ...
Psfive
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Do you still need noise cancelling in a big jet, as it's not as noisy as a heli or prop?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 17 May 2019 14:46
What is a "hot mic"?
Its a saying for a mic that is permanently 'live' - its also used to let call signs on a radio frequency know that somebody is permanently transmitting - through a 'stuck' 'pressel switch' or 'transmit switch'.
As in '
All stations be advised somebody has a hot mic'
In Jon's example a '
hot mic' would be live permanently over the internal flight deck intercom I suspect.
Some very amusing traffic can often be heard this way, or alternatively critical information cannot be passed since the channel is blocked.
At first I thought so, too. But then I didn't understand why they can't hear anything if the mic is always on:
Quote... used hot mics full-time. The 767 wasn't designed to do that, so it leaves the IRP or check airman out of the loop because they can't hear a word "they" are saying.
Are "
they" those who talk into a hot mic, or are "
they" those who can't hear "
their" own word because "
they" are forced to listen to someone else who's continuously talking into a hot mic?
:-)
Or is it a one-way system where only one person can talk at a time by pushing a switch, and that person talks too much?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 18 May 2019 01:30
At first I thought so, too. But then I didn't understand why they can't hear anything if the mic is always on:
Are "they" those who talk into a hot mic, or are "they" those who can't hear "their" own word because "they" are forced to listen to someone else who's continuously talking into a hot mic?
All of the above I guess ... I would venture that the new headsets cannot operate correctly or interface correctly with the older ACPs fitted to the 767s.
Quote from: GodAtumDo you still need noise cancelling in a big jet, as it's not as noisy as a heli or prop?
On the 744, yes. The air reaches the speed of sound (or close enough thereto) as it flows over the fuselage hump. The 744ERs have an extra layer of plexiglass on the side windows. On the 767, you probably need it simply for the noisy equipment cooling :o
Quote from: EmeryDCPlus, most of the newer pilots came from the regionals where they apparently used hot mics full-time. The 767 wasn't designed to do that, so it leaves the IRP or check airman out of the loop because they can't hear a word they're saying.
It's compulsory for the mics to be hot these days for voice recorder/hijacking purposes. However, without keying the mic, the mic audio shouldn't go to anywhere other than the CVR. I don't know how these regional boomsets do the keying when fitted to the 767 or 744. Keylines don't even go through the boomset jack panels.
By "hot mic," I mean that the interphone between the two pilots is always on (hot), so you can talk and hear the other pilot over the headsets, but you will also hear more background noise because you are listening to the sound that the boom mics pick up. And if there's an IRP he won't hear the conversation at all.
I use a telex airman 750 when I am doing my ops rides, at work our ship's headsets are Telex 850s. I know whats in my hair. One time a long time ago I was riding JS on a UA 737 and the ear cushions on the ship's headset were smothered in either afrosheen or brylcream. There wasn't enough sanicom wipes to get them clean and even after wiping and letting it dry, there was still a film of something.
I've carried a telex headset since that flight. Most of our crews will use Bose Noise cancelling - and if I flew for my work I probably would too - but my tinnitus is bad enough no Bose will help now :)
I'm overly curious today. What is an "IRP"?
Quote from: DougSnow on Sat, 18 May 2019 14:41
... the ear cushions on the ship's headset were smothered in either afrosheen or brylcream. There wasn't enough sanicom wipes to get them clean ...
Ha! :-)
IRP - International Relief Pilot, the 3rd pilot dozing for dollars...
Are there also non-international relief pilots?
Under US domestic rules, the flight time limits were based on 2 pilots to a max of 8 flight hours, before FAR 117 came into being. Internationally, I'm not sure what the FAA's rules are, but under our pilot contract, international legs up to I think 12+30 long have 3 pilots (1 bunkie dozing for dollars), and flights over 12+31 get 4 pilots.
QuoteBy "hot mic," I mean that the interphone between the two pilots is always on (hot), so you can talk and hear the other pilot over the headsets,
I still can't see how this is possible on the 767. On the 744, the control column INT switch had a locking mechanism, but not the 767.
QuoteI still can't see how this is possible on the 767. On the 744, the control column INT switch had a locking mechanism, but not the 767.
Some of our 767s have the control column locking mechanism.
QuoteAre there also non-international relief pilots?
Our contract has a duty time limit of 14 hours for a two-pilot crew, which the crew could waive and go up to 16 hours. Last year, I made the mistake of informing scheduling that I would not be doing an assigned 15-hour duty day from ATL-CVG (sit there for 6 hours), then DFW-ELP. Despite the objections of the Chief Pilot and 767 Fleet Standards Captain, scheduling threw an extra crewmember (Domestic Relief Pilot?) on the flight starting in ATL and argued they were in compliance with the contract. Guys had to start calling in fatigued in order to get them to stop scheduling it like this. This was the first use of a Domestic Relief Pilot I had ever seen -- And hopefully the last.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 17 May 2019 14:46
What is a "hot mic"? Is it an audio system that uses noise gates? You mean their noise gate threshold is set too high so that their audio output is muted when they are speaking at a volume level below that threshold?
When I used such systems, many years ago, I always made a click noise with my tongue before speaking. That opened the gate clearly and assured that the first vowel in my sentence wasn't muted :-)
So you may hear ...
Click-flapsfive
... instead of ...
Psfive
|-|
I think you are referring to a VOX system (voice operated transmit) where you can set the sensitivity using a little volume knob. It prevented having to key the mic but caused the issue you solved with your tongue-click. :)
No, the noise gate is just in the pilot-to-pilot channel. I used these systems when I flew little Cessnas in the USA because they were built in. The gate wasn't in the ATC transmission channel. There is no automatic transmission.
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We call these mic audio processing circuits "Compressor/VOX" circuits. On the 767 interphone system, any mic input below 40mV will not be passed.
Once a decent mic signal is received, you can then hear background noise in your headset. As an engineer, I didn't like not hearing anything if I keyed the microphone and heard nothing (prior to speaking).
Quote from: JonSome of our 767s have the control column locking mechanism.
Ah.. thanks.
Flying with Hillbilly Hotmike is pretty much standard now. Use a rubber band on the comm panel to hold the switch in the INT position. Much safer to hear your other crew members clearly, and to have both earpieces on the ear to clearly hear ATC. This gives maximum passive noise suppression by having the earpieces on the ears, and if you have active noise suppression, then that is maximized as well.
The -8F and other more modern Boeing jets come from the factory with a locking hot mike switch on the yoke.
Shouting over the noise of the jet is becoming a thing of the past.
This was standard in the military, but only has been creeping into the industry for the last 10 years or so. Interesting that it took so long to take hold. I think it was with the advent of noise cancelling headsets that people started rethinking it.
QuoteFlying with Hillbilly Hotmike is pretty much standard now.
Note that doing this will mute (or reduce the volume of) one or both speakers. As mentioned, if you're flying with a 3rd pilot who is not wearing a headset, he/she may not be
in the loop.
On the Classic 747, the aural warnings came through the regular speakers, but (fortunately) I think most of the aural warnings were
unmuted. The Radio Altimeter DH tone was the exception.
Quote from: John H Watson on Sun, 19 May 2019 02:37
QuoteBy "hot mic," I mean that the interphone between the two pilots is always on (hot), so you can talk and hear the other pilot over the headsets,
I still can't see how this is possible on the 767. On the 744, the control column INT switch had a locking mechanism, but not the 767.
I finally got a good picture of the locking mechanism for the hot mic interphone system we discussed above. The first pic is in the locked interphone position. The second pic is with the rocker switch in the normal position. The third pic is the locking mechanism, which appears to be a small spring-loaded BB in the switch. Not many of our 767s have this feature. This particular aircraft (N739DH) was recently converted by Boeing, so maybe they installed it at the time. I just happened to discover this a few hours ago.
When both pilots have their rocker switches locked (just push in and the plastic retainer will hold it), the interphone is hot so the pilots can communicate with each other through the interphone instead of the normal way (yelling).
The rocker switch is located on the left side of the captain's yoke (picture) and the right side of the FOs yoke.
(http://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/normal-pos.jpg)
(http://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/hot-mic-position.jpg)
(http://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/interphone-latch.jpg)
Jon
Oh yes 767... once spent 10 minutes searching for the volume knob of the speakers... being 744-biased I thought they were on the ACP... took a bit to find them in the middle of said speakers (visible on the photos) :-)
I think it's more intuitive to have the volume control right on the speaker, but the engineers never asked my opinion when they were designing the 744.
It's one of those half-intuitive things. Once you know it you say "of course" and never forget, but it is not something you would come up with by yourself. Of course also because I have a bias of loud stage PA systems, where you do not put the final loudness knob on the stage speakers :-)
Hoppie
never claiming I was an audio engineer. I was a LOUDNESS engineer.
We changed from "personal Telex" to active Bose headsets (A20?) fixed on the aircraft to get active noise reduction. This was pushed by the company doctor to tackle hearing problems (our company arranges our medical check and the company doctor will be present to analyse company topics like possible hearing deterioration or fatigue problems).
It is forbidden to fly with a personal headset, after a dead battery on a personal unapproved headset, lead to an ASR on a very busy airport. Still, if you know the headset choice was a result of a survey among pilots and testing inflight, the pilots who have the personal Bose, will still use it. Coronavirus and the likes at their defense...
I never use the active noise reduction, I like silent, but silent in relation to the aircraft: silent but variable engine noise, silent but variable cockpit noise. I don't understand how people can fly with "dead noise" (not hearing engines changing, not hearing windnoise, ...).
As far as hot mics, 15 years ago, we used the rubber band on the ACP and put it on interphone on the pedestal. For some reason they've all changed and have the interphone lock standard now on the yoke while I was gone from the 73. The speaker thing is a widebody thing I guess, it was the standard on the 777, not on the 73 where it just creates more noise. Whoever is on the jumpseat is required to wear a headset. It is always a battle to get a microphone on the jumpseat when doing checks though...
QuoteI never use the active noise reduction, I like silent, but silent in relation to the aircraft: silent but variable engine noise, silent but variable cockpit noise. I don't understand how people can fly with "dead noise" (not hearing engines changing, not hearing windnoise, ...).
+1. I hate flying with guys who have these headsets. They rave about them but miss more calls and more commands than if they had just been wearing the ship's headsets, which aren't the greatest but at least if there's s weird noise you're more likely to hear it. I don't even like using the interphone but the guy I'm flying with was so happy to be on an airplane that had locking switches that he just had to use it. Plus he said his hearing was going and wanted to protect what's left. We're both the same age, but he's apparently got me beat in the loud rock concert category. Maybe he went to a show that Hoppie was in charge of.