Hardy,
I fly in/out of PANC/ANC Intl in PSX on a very regular basis. When arriving from the N to RWY 15 or departing from RWY 33 I notice that the surface & local WX conditions change rapidly from up to 15-20 NM out. Having watched the Situation>Weather>Local zones on one of my PSX instances I have watched the active WX zone switch from some nearby ARPTS - finally loading up the PANC/ANC WX only at a couple of NM out on short finals.
The actual WX PSX encounters during this period changes rapidly & differs dramatically from the PANC TAF/METAR.
Is there any chance you could have a look at this during the update cycle?
Cheers!
If the downloaded METAR of the nearest zone is outdated, all you can do is turn it off manually. If you will land within the next 30 minutes, you need no further downloads anyway.
I can't change it. If I always exclude this station, you may miss important local real-time weather effects at other times.
|-|ardy
Ok perhaps what I am saying is being lost in translation ...
Here is the plan view of the approach plate with my position on it as I was flying it ...
(https://i.imgur.com/lYmZ6tyl.jpg?1)
Here are the local ARPT WX conditions that were directly influencing the WX during that approach, I make reference to them in relation to the above image, you will see I actually only got PANC weather only 2.9 DME out on the ILS, with the DME at the far end of a 10963ft RWY - is that in anyway realistic?
TED 20 DME ARC WX from PAWS
ILS 15 20NM FINAL WX from PALH
ILS 15 17NM FINAL WX from PAED
ILS 15 CARDD WX from PAED
ILS 15 09NM FINAL WX from PALH
ILS 15 2.9NM FINAL WX from PANC
So, to rephrase the question, can the WX from PALH & PAED & PAWS be suppressed in order to allow PANC weather to be constant in this area, if you fly an approach from this quadrant you will see how unrealistic & abrupt the change between stations is, especially the final one right before the PANC RWY15 threshold? I am sure this has been asked for before in other areas.
Cheers.
Quotecan the WX from PALH & PAED & PAWS be suppressed
Yes, deactivate the automatic setting and enter dashes "----" over PALH & PAED & PAWS.
Or go to PANC and click "To zones", so that all zones have a copy of the current PANC data.
Is this a permanent 'thing' or something I have to do on the 'fly' every time I fly into PANC - bearing in mind the TAB for PANC did not even become available to see until I was on about a 10nm final?
Just asking. Are these nearby stations reporting actually correct METARs, with a recent time and reasonable data?
If not a recent time, that can be filtered. But if the weather near Anchorage is that variable, ...
The METARs from the stations I have described are somewhat silly.
PAWS is Wasilla ARPT with a 3700ft RWY
PALH is Lake Hood Sea Plane Base
PAED Elmendorf AB is just across the Sea Plane Base from Anchorage ARPT
Both PALH & PAED give very differing METAR to PANC, try flying these in METARs in succession with the final METAR change (PALH-PANC) pretty much happening at about .5NM from the threshold of RWY15 at PANC:
PAED
(https://i.imgur.com/kxmFU2Ul.jpg?1)
PALH
(https://i.imgur.com/kKFlijcl.jpg)
PANC
(http://i.imgur.com/qugWzzel.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/qugWzze)
They all look fine and are from the same UTC.
What exactly is the problem? Do you expect constant wind data along the entire approach? That's unrealistic.
Also, the only thing that changes fast from zone to zone are cloud objects.
But baro, wind, OAT, runway visibility change from zone to zone very, very, very slowly. Not abrupt at all. Baro is the slowest of all. Wind changes are less slow. Especially in mountainous areas like PANC you should expect some wind changes along the route. And here they are. Isn't it fantastic?
The values displayed are just target values. The actual values in the sim world drift very smoothly and slowly towards these target values.
Okay,
I'll point it right out for you.
Lake Hood Sea Plane Base is positioned on the eastern perimeter of Anchorage Airport...less than 1200m from the threshold of PANC RWY 15. The transition, I can assure from the conditions I show in the images & illustrate below is/was far from smooth otherwise I would not be telling you about it. The head wind component increase & gust come from nowhere on very short finals. I bet in reality they are in play further out
Wind at Lake Hood Sea Plane Base ..... 170/05
Wind over the RWY15 at Anchorage ..... 160/14G25
How can there be no gust at Lake Hood whilst it is reported at PANC? Perhaps it is because the WX station at Lake Hood is at sea level & lies in the lee of the higher ground of the Anchorage Airport (elev 151ft amsl) to its immediate West?
I am not expecting smooth sailing all the way down far from it ... but I am also not expecting a ridiculous shift to the destination WX over the runway threshold.
The mountains are quite a hike away BTW off to the east.
Fantastic isn't it?
OK, back to your previous question. My answer was:
Deactivate the automatic setting and enter dashes "----" over PALH & PAED & PAWS.
Or go to PANC and click "To zones", so that all zones have a copy of the current PANC data.
If PANC is not auto-entered already, enter it manually and click "Load from METAR", then click "To zones".
Yes, do this manually, please. PSX includes no artificial intelligence for local weather designs for each of the thousands of airports.
You can request D-ATIS for these airports prior to descend so you can see in advance whether you are happy with the current METAR combination.
Hardy-
Could PSX automatically ignore all waterdrome METARs?
Maybe also all airports with runways shorter than database minimums?
In emergency situations the closest large airport METAR would suffice.
If not, is it possible to consider ability to lock DEST Wx at 20nm?
C
Not possible, sorry. The METARs are used to generate WX radar images. The radar sees everything, be it a short or a long runway.
Hardy,
In response to your suggestion I asked this ...I did not receive clarification to the questions here & I am still unsure as to 'how' what you describe is done correctly.
Quote from: G-CIVA on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:03
Is this a permanent 'thing' or something I have to do on the 'fly' every time I fly into PANC - bearing in mind the TAB for PANC did not even become available to see until I was on about a 10nm final?
Regards
Yes, permanent.
But I, personally, wouldn't do it. ATIS wind (windsock wind at xx UTC) and actual wind may differ in my world. Getting a late wind change at random is a nice feature, in my opinion. The METAR winds will not always differ that much as they do today.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:22
The METAR winds will not always differ that much as they do today.
The whole point of today's Q & A Hardy is that in the N quadrant approach into PANC this is an issue. I fly in/out of here very often & it is always an issue. I do not find this to be an issue pretty much anywhere else that PSX takes me, which is a rather extensive network of PSX ARPTs.
One final question.
If I make these permanent changes, with they remain in place with the 'Set zones by flight track and downloaded METARs' check box ticked?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:18
Not possible, sorry. The METARs are used to generate WX radar images. The radar sees everything, be it a short or a long runway.
Yes, but if it ignored runways shorter than 1400M long (like the database) and Waterdromes, wouldn't it just populate as it would in areas with airports further apart (area without immediate METAR that is smoothly transitioned next)?
C
QuoteIf I make these permanent changes, with they remain in place with the 'Set zones by flight track and downloaded METARs' check box ticked?
No.
The permanent change (permanent until flight completion) you need to do is this:
Deselect 'Set zones by flight track and downloaded METARs'.
Then ...
1. Enter PANC in any of the 7 zones (if isn't entered already).
2. On the PANC zone page click "Load from METAR" and wait until the data is loaded.
3. On the PANC zone page click "To zones".
Now all 7 zones refer to PANC and have the latest PANC METAR. Only the data of the first PANC page will be applied to the simulated planet. The other PANC duplicates will not be used; their data will not be applied. Instead of making PANC duplicates you could also enter dashes "----" in the airport fields of the other 6 zone pages. That would also disable the other 6 pages.
|-|ardy
With your new module/update, could that be done automatically at 20 or 25nm? That would solve the issue of new METARs popping up on final at the destination, and CBs and W/S would already be noted.
C
Quote from: cavaricooper on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:02
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:18
Not possible, sorry. The METARs are used to generate WX radar images. The radar sees everything, be it a short or a long runway.
Yes, but if it ignored runways shorter than 1400M long (like the database) and Waterdromes, wouldn't it just populate as it would in areas with airports further apart (area without immediate METAR that is smoothly transitioned next)?
C
Yes, but you would miss that real-life thunderstorm over that small airport if small airports were to be ignored in general.
Quote from: cavaricooper on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:14
With your new module/update, could that be done automatically at 20 or 25nm? That would solve the issue of new METARs popping up on final at the destination, and CBs and W/S would already be noted.
C
No, SIGMETs only inform about significant weather. A rain cloud is not necessarily significant. There are usually less than 70 SIGMETs world-wide at a time. That's not much.
SO.... locking DEST Wx at 20mn would work if it's ignoring METAR...?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:17
Quote from: cavaricooper on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:14
With your new module/update, could that be done automatically at 20 or 25nm? That would solve the issue of new METARs popping up on final at the destination, and CBs and W/S would already be noted.
C
No, SIGMETs only inform about significant weather.
To lock your destination, e.g. PANC, do this (whenever you want):
Deselect 'Set zones by flight track and downloaded METARs'.
Then ...
1. Enter PANC in any of the 7 zones (if isn't entered already).
2. On the PANC zone page click "Load from METAR" and wait until the data is loaded.
3. On the PANC zone page click "To zones".
Now all 7 zones refer to PANC and have the latest PANC METAR. Only the data of the first PANC page will be applied to the simulated planet. The other PANC duplicates will not be used; their data will not be applied. Instead of making PANC duplicates you could also enter dashes "----" in the airport fields of the other 6 zone pages. That would also disable the other 6 pages.
|-|ardy
Note that your radar in this case will only display PANC weather.
I have an idea ...
I could use the data output of the EPWS terrain clearance floor alert computer. This tells me, based on a special geometry algorithm, on which runway the crew will probably land. It also tells me the identifier of the airport the runway belongs to.
Maybe I can use this identifier to select and lock the related weather zone when it is one of the current 7 zones and when the aircraft's distance to that runway is less than X.
What would be a good value for X?
5 nm?
|-|ardy
P.S.: This will keep the other 6 zones on the simulated planet and hence on the radar as well. It will just keep the desired zone focussed. The focussed zone is the one that affects aerodynamics and windshield effects. All 7 zones together affect radar and weather report simulations.
I would suggest 10nm, but would prefer to hear from Jon, Peter, Ice etc.
This would be a good compromise, allowing for realism without spurious changes, as well as the ability to concentrate on flying final and not having to pause and type.
Thanks- C
10 nm is too much (too boring), in my opinion. Give neighbour METAR stations a chance to replicate real-world weather constellations.
The windsock is 10 nm away!
Just throwing JET-A1 on the fire.
Could the zone that EGPWS thinks you're aiming for get heavier weight, instead of focus? Or a larger focus zone?
Hoppie
Notwithstanding that it seems reasonable to include a report with a thunderstorm over it - perhaps one solution would be to have a local weather "matrix" which excluded obviously inaccurate or local-effect reports such as errant pressure settings or winds?
It doesn't make sense to have a huge change on final approach. Of course - if the destination is one of those "errant" airfields what do you do then? Take notice because it is an FMC destination?
Peter.
We're talking about a wind direction change of 10°.
And about a wind speed change by 9 knots.
And about an area where gusts are present while another windsock does not report gusts.
And about a change rate that is very, very, very slow.
I'm not going to spend any more develoment time and turn this already super-smooth transition system into a quasi-static system.
I'm offering the above solution which is an optimal solution, in my opinion. And when that is done I want to return to my main project ...
Cheers,
|-|ardy
Quote from: G-CIVA on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:41
Wind at Lake Hood Sea Plane Base ..... 170/05
Wind over the RWY15 at Anchorage ..... 160/14G25
I'll take it!
Ta- C
I bid 7 nm.
7 nm.
7.
Going once, going twice, sold ...
Thank-you
C
Hardy - not much of a vote there! I wasn't ready!
Complete by March 29th?
Peter.
I have experienced this "changes" nearby LPPT, when flying circuits. Nearby LPCS and LPMT, and sometimes also LPAR are to blame, specially when there are banks of fog, or the hills to the North of LPAR can affect the wind patterns between there and LPPT.
It's difficult to guesstimate the correct blending between these nearby areas where METAR / SPECI, but there's one aspect I would like to see treated with higher granularity in PSX - cloud cover depiction when, for instance, FEW is present and I see a mantle ( OVERCAST ) of white around me, and it suddenly disappears when transitioning into a cloudless area.
The PSX windshield graphics do not model single cloud objects. Only the radar does.
That weather zone lock is now available in PSX 10.72:
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=4191.0
|-|ardy
Danke!
C