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RNP approaches?

Started by Will, Wed, 23 Oct 2024 02:19

Will

Hi, I'm sure this is just my brain trying to confuse myself, but can someone please verify:

B747-400 aircraft with the legacy FMC can fly RNP approaches as long as they don't include RF legs.

That's correct, isn't it?
Will /Chicago /USA

Hardy Heinlin

Hi,

I don't know exactly how the relation between the terms "RNP approach" and "RF leg" is managed in real life. But in PSX and in real life, the legacy FMC cannot handle any RF leg -- no matter whether the RF is part of an RNP approach or not. Procedures that contain any RF leg will only appear on the DEP/ARR pages in PSX when the NG FMC is selected. If you load an RF leg with the NG FMC and then switch to the legacy FMC, the RF leg becomes a normal leg with a straight segment between the turn segments at the waypoints.

RNP/ANP control already exists in the legacy FMC. But the legacy FMC's LNAV and VNAV commands to the AFDS are not as precise as those of the NG FMC. I guess the question is not whether the legacy FMC can handle any RNP control -- but: How low an RNP value can it meet.


Regards,

|-|ardy

Mariano

#2
Will,

This is what the company for which I work states in the 747 (-400 and -8) FCOM Volume 1, limitations section.

"RNAV (RNP) AR Approaches
Operations are not authorized for RNAV (RNP) or RNP (AR) approaches.
Note:
• FAA: RNAV (RNP)
• ICAO: RNP (AR)"

As a US operator, our OpsSpecs allow RNAV approaches in the US, as long as the title doesn't have "(RNP)" on it, and overseas, they allow RNP approaches as long as the title doesn't have "(AR)" on it. I know, it's confusing.

Note: All our -400s are NG-equipped, although this limitation was also in place when they were legacy-equipped (i.e. non-RF, non-(AR) RNAV approaches were indeed allowed in the legacy -400s).

We have been told that there are continuing efforts to align these terms around most of the world but, so far, nothing.

I guess that this question has many answers depending on the operator and the certificating agency (seeing as the -400 NGs and the -8s can physically fly RF legs).

Best regards,

Mariano

PanosI

One of my favorites. Perfectly executed by PSX

[Aerowinx Precision Simulator - Situation]
[Version 10.175]

Description=LPMA RNP Z 05 (AR) .situ
^-^-^-^ End of description ^-^-^-^

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MfGearTire=0;6;-99
MfIceDetect=0;6;-99
MfPitotLoL=1;6;-99
MfPitotUpL=1;6;-99
MfPitotLoR=1;6;-99
MfPitotUpR=1;6;-99
MfStabTrimMotion=0;6;-99
MfStabTrimRunaway=1;6;-99
MfDuctLeakL=1;6;-99
MfDuctLeakC=1;6;-99
MfDuctLeakR=0;6;-99
MfBleedOvht1=0;6;-99
MfBleedOvht2=1;6;-99
MfBleedOvht3=0;6;-99
MfBleedOvht4=1;6;-99
MfCabDecomp=0;6;-99
MfCabExplo=1;6;-99
MfEquipOvht=1;6;-99
MfNai1=0;6;-99
MfNai2=0;6;-99
MfNai3=0;6;-99
MfNai4=0;6;-99
MfPack1=0;6;-99
MfPack2=0;6;-99
MfPack3=0;6;-99
MfAltAlert=0;6;-99
MfAltCall=0;6;-99
MfConfigAlert=0;6;-99
MfEicasDsp=0;6;-99
MfIduCtrUpr=0;6;-99
MfIduCtrLwr=1;6;-99
MfIndN1Rev1=0;6;-99
MfIndN1Rev2=0;6;-99
MfIndN1Rev3=0;6;-99
MfIndN1Rev4=0;6;-99
MfIndEgtFf1=0;6;-99
MfIndEgtFf2=0;6;-99
MfIndEgtFf3=0;6;-99
MfIndEgtFf4=1;6;-99
MfMawea=0;6;-99
MfTcasNd=0;6;-99
MfTcasRa=0;6;-99
MfWindshear=1;6;-99
MfIdgOil1=0;6;-99
MfIdgOil2=0;6;-99
MfIdgOil3=0;6;-99
MfIdgOil4=0;6;-99
MfAcBus1=0;6;-99
MfAcBus2=0;6;-99
MfAcBus3=0;6;-99
MfAcBus4=0;6;-99
MfBatBusMn=0;6;-99
MfBatBusAp=0;6;-99
MfMnBatOvht=0;6;-99
MfApBatOvht=0;6;-99
MfDcBus1=0;6;-99
MfDcBus2=0;6;-99
MfDcBus3=0;6;-99
MfDcBus4=0;6;-99
MfStrike=0;6;-99
MfStall1=0;6;-99
MfStall2=0;6;-99
MfStall3=1;6;-99
MfStall4=1;6;-99
MfFlameOut1=0;6;-99
MfFlameOut2=0;6;-99
MfFlameOut3=0;6;-99
MfFlameOut4=0;6;-99
MfFod1=1;6;-99
MfFod2=0;6;-99
MfFod3=0;6;-99
MfFod4=0;6;-99
MfIgnit1=0;6;-99
MfIgnit2=0;6;-99
MfIgnit3=1;6;-99
MfIgnit4=1;6;-99
MfLowOilPrSw1=1;6;-99
MfLowOilPrSw2=1;6;-99
MfLowOilPrSw3=1;6;-99
MfLowOilPrSw4=0;6;-99
MfOilPress1=1;6;-99
MfOilPress2=0;6;-99
MfOilPress3=0;6;-99
MfOilPress4=0;6;-99
MfOilTemp1=0;6;-99
MfOilTemp2=1;6;-99
MfOilTemp3=0;6;-99
MfOilTemp4=0;6;-99
MfSquib1=0;6;-99
MfSquib2=0;6;-99
MfSquib3=0;6;-99
MfSquib4=0;6;-99
MfAfolts1=1;6;-99
MfAfolts2=1;6;-99
MfAfolts3=1;6;-99
MfAfolts4=1;6;-99
MfDetLp1=1;6;-99
MfDetLp2=0;6;-99
MfDetLp3=0;6;-99
MfDetLp4=0;6;-99
MfFireApu=0;6;-99
MfFireMdDk=0;6;-99
MfFireLoAft=0;6;-99
MfFireLoFwd=0;6;-99
MfFireWheel=0;6;-99
MfFireEn1bt=1;6;-99
MfFireEn2bt=1;6;-99
MfFireEn3bt=1;6;-99
MfFireEn4bt=1;6;-99
MfFireEn1nb=0;6;-99
MfFireEn2nb=0;6;-99
MfFireEn3nb=0;6;-99
MfFireEn4nb=0;6;-99
MfOvhtNac1=0;6;-99
MfOvhtNac2=0;6;-99
MfOvhtNac3=0;6;-99
MfOvhtNac4=0;6;-99
MfFuelLkE1=1;6;-99
MfFuelLkE2=1;6;-99
MfFuelLkE3=0;6;-99
MfFuelLkE4=1;6;-99
MfFuelTkCt=1;6;-99
MfFuelTk1=1;6;-99
MfFuelTk2=1;6;-99
MfFuelTk3=1;6;-99
MfFuelTk4=1;6;-99
MfFuelPumpC=0;6;-99
MfFuelPump1=0;6;-99
MfFuelPump2=0;6;-99
MfFuelPump3=0;6;-99
MfFuelPump4=0;6;-99
MfFuelPumpJ2=1;6;-99
MfFuelPumpJ3=1;6;-99
MfFuelPumpS=0;6;-99
MfFuelTemp=1;6;-99
MfHydim1=1;6;-99
MfHydim2=0;6;-99
MfHydim3=0;6;-99
MfHydim4=0;6;-99
MfHydLeak1=1;6;-99
MfHydLeak2=1;6;-99
MfHydLeak3=1;6;-99
MfHydLeak4=1;6;-99
MfHydOvht1=1;6;-99
MfHydOvht2=1;6;-99
MfHydOvht3=1;6;-99
MfHydOvht4=1;6;-99
MfHydPump1=0;6;-99
MfHydPump2=0;6;-99
MfHydPump3=0;6;-99
MfHydPump4=0;6;-99
MfRsvr12=1;6;-99
MfRsvr34=1;6;-99
MfFccL=1;6;-99
MfFccC=1;6;-99
MfFccR=1;6;-99
MfFmcL=1;6;-99
MfFmcR=1;6;-99
MfGpsSignal=0;6;-99
MfGndStaLoc=1;6;-99
MfGndStaGs=1;6;-99
MfIduInbdCp=0;6;-99
MfIduOutbdCp=1;6;-99
MfIduInbdFo=0;6;-99
MfIduOutbdFo=0;6;-99
MfIrsAtt=0;6;-99
MfIrsDrift=1;6;-99
MfIrsFail=0;6;-99
MfRcpL=0;6;-99
MfRcpC=1;6;-99
MfRcpR=0;6;-99
MfStby=0;6;-99
MechAtt=1;0;0;18000000
IsfdAtt=1;0;0;0
JetStreams=050551075514054219622746732862025190913716125184432502631334046391024216636202372521833420016530816313266196642715831262;84;140;95;138
WxAloft=a38000t67w0000900;0;cvN55 40.6 E157 44.9
WxBasic=0;45000;45000;2;3280;1800;0;5324;0;0;35140;3000;0;0;400;0;2320;50;00010011;11;9999;0;27;2985
Wx1=0;45000;45000;2;4380;2900;0;5324;0;0;35140;3000;0;0;400;0;2320;50;00000018;18;9999;0;23;3009
Wx2=0;45000;45000;6;10620;2700;0;5324;0;0;35140;3000;0;0;400;0;2320;50;1000407;7;9999;0;23;3012
Wx3=0;45000;45000;4;5470;1600;0;5324;304;0;35140;3000;0;0;400;0;2320;50;3590005;5;9999;0;24;3015
Wx4=0;45000;45000;0;0;0;0;5324;304;0;35140;3000;0;0;400;0;2320;50;0002409;9;9999;0;23;3009
Wx5=0;45000;45000;4;5470;1600;0;5324;304;0;35140;3000;0;0;400;0;2320;50;3590005;5;9999;0;24;3015
Wx6=0;45000;45000;0;0;0;0;5324;304;0;35140;3000;0;0;400;0;2320;50;0002409;9;9999;0;23;3009
Wx7=0;45000;45000;2;3980;2500;0;5324;304;0;35140;3000;0;0;400;0;2320;50;00005015;15;9999;0;23;3003
WxMode1=0.48542455;-0.31215698;320;105;06;GCHI36p
WxMode2=0.49962473;-0.3098929;320;107;06;GCLA36p
WxMode3=0.57062083;-0.29283231;320;192;06;LPMA36p
WxMode4=0.48921093;-0.30045357;320;715;06;GCGM36p
WxMode5=0.57062083;-0.29283231;320;192;06;LPMA36p
WxMode6=0.48921093;-0.30045357;320;715;06;GCGM36p
WxMode7=0.49659467;-0.24197051;320;86;06;GCFV36p
Metar1=GCHI 301330Z 36018KT 9999 FEW029 23/17 Q1019
Metar2=GCLA 301330Z 04007KT 350V090 9999 BKN027 23/16 Q1020
Metar3=LPMA 301330Z VRB05KT 9999 SCT016 24/17 Q1021
Metar4=GCGM 301330Z 24009KT CAVOK 23/17 Q1019 RMK R09/24007KT 200V290 ARP/24008KT 190V290
Metar5=LPMA 301330Z VRB05KT 9999 SCT016 24/17 Q1021
Metar6=GCGM 301330Z 24009KT CAVOK 23/17 Q1019 RMK R09/24007KT 200V290 ARP/24008KT 190V290
Metar7=GCFV 301330Z 05015KT 9999 FEW025 23/16 Q1017
WxClust=0.6525234;-0.10455145;0.6689931;-0.21670575;0.5865495;-0.22614649;0.5991706;-0.28684923
CduPages=27;0;15;0;114;0
NavRadSet=FUN;SNT;11220A720;11490A720;03090F;03310F;11050A032;11050A032;11050A032;;;;;;
IrsAtt=0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0
IrsAlignMode=qqqhhh
IrsAlignTime=102000;102000;102000
IrsBrgDst=0.9599108659653908;7.348871026867304E-5;4.834576069029595;4.1993547950545854E-5;2.6528877839115523;8.04876363492291E-5
Brakes=0;0
EnginesInit=771;771;771;771;902;900;901;903;LLLL;433;422;428;438;0;0;0;0;106;101;104;108;15;14;13;14;0;0;0;0
EngPrsov=OOOO
EngSav=cccc
EngFuel=OOOOOOOO
EngIgn=2332
EngRunt=300;300;300;300
FmcPerfFac=xz0;0;130;1;100;100;5;400;1000;
FmcCrossload=xx0
FmcNavDbDates=JUN13JUL11/24MAY16JUN13/24mA
FmcNavInhib=-;0;0@-;0;0@-;0;0@-;0;0@e
FmcPosBias=M2Q0;0;0;0
FmcPosInit=-;-;-30;N51o09.3_W000o10.1N51o09.3_W000o10.1Xgb-
FmcAppRef=h100000g143LPMA05__9124FT2781M
FmcThrSet=3;0;C-99
FmcLegStep=2;2
FmcRteViAcMo=11100
FmcRtePgsOf=1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;
FmcRte0=bbbb;bbbb;;;;;;;;0;49#AbEN00*___'''9.0/9.0'0'0'0';AbEN00*___'''9.0/9.0'0'0'0';AbEN00*___'''9.0/9.0'0'0'0';
FmcRte1=LPMA;LPMA;;;;;;;;0;49#AaEN00*___'''0.5734609/-0.28952485'0'0'0';adEN-+*___PILIM'''0.5734127/-0.28957263'0'240'302'-1'230'3000'0';abLN0+*___MA530'APPR_TRANS''0.57298297/-0.29003096'14097'214'302'-1'0'2000'0';axEN0+*___MA528'APPR_TRANS''0.57248116/-0.29038063'1410'213'302'-1'0'2000'0''491'0'-1'0'9.0/9.0';abRN-+*___MA526'APPR_TRANS''0.56971526/-0.29150248'1412'208'302'-1'195'2000'0';axRN-x*___MA522'APPR_TRANS''0.56916696/-0.29280052'1414'207'302'-1'160'2000'0''289'0'-1'0'9.0/9.0';rxRN0+*___MA520'RNVZ_05_''0.5697214/-0.2932761'1415'202'302'-1'0'1200'0''145'0'-1'-300'9.0/9.0';rbRN0+*___MA504'RNVZ_05_''0.57001287/-0.2932761'1415'201'302'-1'0'890'0''0'0'-1'-300'9.0/9.0';rxEN0+*___MA502'RNVZ_05_''0.5704226/-0.29307708'1416'198'302'-1'0'390'0''192'0'-1'-300'9.0/9.0';rbEN0xD___RW05'RNVZ_05_''0.5705469/-0.2929317'1416'197'302'450'0'200'0''0'0'-1'-300'9.0/9.0';zbRN00*___MA550'MISSED_APPR''0.57084143/-0.2925874'1417'195'302';zxRN-0*___MA552'MISSED_APPR''0.571149/-0.29197505'1417'192'302'-1'210'0'0''398'0'-1'0'9.0/9.0';zxEN00*___MA554'MISSED_APPR''0.56871784/-0.2904754'1423'170'302'-1'0'0'0''464'0'-1'0'9.0/9.0';zbRN-+*B__MONEC'MISSED_APPR''0.5664705/-0.29374567'1428'150'302'-1'230'3000'0';zoLN-+*__HMONEC'MISSED_APPR''0.5664705/-0.29374567'1428'150'302'200'230'3000'0''0'-10'-1'0'9.0/9.0';AbEN00*___'''0.5664705/-0.29374567'1504'0'0';
FmcRte2=bbbb;bbbb;;;;;;;;0;99#AbEN00*___'''9.0/9.0'0'0'0';AbEN00*___'''9.0/9.0'0'0'0';AbEN00*___'''9.0/9.0'0'0'0';
FmcRteApts0=191z0.57062083y-0.29283231x191w0.57062083v-0.29283231u250t10000s5000r250q10000p0o
FmcRteApts1=191z0.57062083y-0.29283231x191w0.57062083v-0.29283231u250t10000s5000r250q10000p0o
FmcRteApts2=0z0y0x0w0v0u250t10000s18000r250q10000p18000o
FmcDepRwys0=2;05;0.5705469;-0.2929317;0.7771306473553992;8632;146;23;0.5708246;-0.29260707;3.9187233009451923;8632;191;
FmcDepRwys1=2;05;0.5705469;-0.2929317;0.7771306473553992;8632;146;23;0.5708246;-0.29260707;3.9187233009451923;8632;191;
FmcDepRwys2=8;08L;0.85513604;0.044553794;1.4891933247294702;13829;338;26R;0.855182;0.04541366;4.630785978319263;11862;318;08R;0.85508764;0.044779234;1.4892056808889151;8858;336;26L;0.85512197;0.04542103;4.630798334478708;8858;316;09L;0.85564274;0.044067673;1.4889274439958626;8858;378;27R;0.8556772;0.044709906;4.630520097585656;8858;392;09R;0.85557115;0.04386114;1.4887048154133282;13779;370;27L;0.85561717;0.04471737;4.630297469003121;11811;386;
FmcArrRwys0=2;05;0.5705469;-0.2929317;0.7771306473553992;8632;146;23;0.5708246;-0.29260707;3.9187233009451923;8632;191;
FmcArrRwys1=2;05;0.5705469;-0.2929317;0.7771306473553992;8632;146;23;0.5708246;-0.29260707;3.9187233009451923;8632;191;
FmcArrRwys2=8;08L;0.85513604;0.044553794;1.4891933247294702;13829;338;08R;0.85508764;0.044779234;1.4892056808889151;8858;336;09L;0.85564274;0.044067673;1.4889274439958626;8858;378;09R;0.85557115;0.04386114;1.4887048154133282;13779;370;26L;0.85512197;0.04542103;4.630798334478708;8858;316;26R;0.855182;0.04541366;4.630785978319263;11862;318;27L;0.85561717;0.04471737;4.630297469003121;11811;386;27R;0.8556772;0.044709906;4.630520097585656;8858;392;
DepArrSel0=;;05;;;;;0;0;0;
DepArrSel1=;;05;;;R05_Z;PILIM;0;0;0;
DepArrSel2=;;;;;;;0;0;0;
FmcRtePredA=xyte3000;0;0;1;0;0.57194537;-0.29059827;0.5708257;-0.29105258;0.5705469;-0.29293174;9.0;0.0;9.0;0.0;9.0;0.0;;-1;-1;0;250;n10000;100;d0;240;e10000;100;d0;sss;222;0;230;0;147;0;
FmcRtePredM=xyte3000;0;0;1;0;0.5705593;-0.29116055;0.57086486;-0.2910367;0.5705469;-0.29293174;9.0;0.0;9.0;0.0;9.0;0.0;;-1;-1;0;250;n10000;100;d0;240;e10000;100;d0;sss;222;0;250;0;147;0;
FmcVnavX=fnn1;5000;18000;-9999;147;;
FmcDesFoca=-9999;-9999;-1;0;-9999;-1;0;-9999;-1;0;-9999;-1;0;
FmcOffpath=0aRW05;0;200;0.5705469;-0.2929317;
FmcPerfInit=161359a529109b11023c80d3000e-1f0g21IJkl
FmcTkofRef=2z1000az400bz5cz0dz0eDz0fz0gz0hz18i0j
FmcProg1=240;PILIM___2770_1405;;9.0;0.0;
FmcFixInfo=w;0;0;n0/0;n0/0;n0/0;n0/0;x0;0;0;@w;0;0;n0/0;n0/0;n0/0;n0/0;x0;0;0;
FmcHold=99;fR00;0;0;0;0;0;0/0;0/0;0/0;0/0;
DepArr=11;0;;;
FmcFltNo=OAL333
FmcScrPads=;;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;
AltnScrPads=;;;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;
EfisScrPads=;;;-1;-1;-1;-1;
AcarsScrPads=;;;-1;-1;-1;-1;
CdusActSubsys=313132
CduRteLa='0.5734609'-0.28952485;PILIM'0.5734127'-0.28957263;MA530'0.57298297'-0.29003096;'0.57298297'-0.29003096;MA526'0.56971526'-0.29150248;'0.56971526'-0.29150248;MA504'0.57001287'-0.2932761;'0.57001287'-0.2932761;RW05'0.5705469'-0.2929317;MA550'0.57084143'-0.2925874;'0.57084143'-0.2925874;MONEC'0.5664705'-0.29374567;'0.57084143'-0.2925874;
CduRteLm='9'9;'9'9;'9'9;
CduRteRa='0.5734609'-0.28952485;PILIM'0.5734127'-0.28957263;MA530'0.57298297'-0.29003096;'0.57298297'-0.29003096;MA526'0.56971526'-0.29150248;'0.56971526'-0.29150248;MA504'0.57001287'-0.2932761;'0.57001287'-0.2932761;RW05'0.5705469'-0.2929317;MA550'0.57084143'-0.2925874;'0.57084143'-0.2925874;MONEC'0.5664705'-0.29374567;'0.57084143'-0.2925874;
CduRteRm='9'9;'9'9;'9'9;
CduRteCa='0.5734609'-0.28952485;PILIM'0.5734127'-0.28957263;MA530'0.57298297'-0.29003096;'0.57298297'-0.29003096;MA526'0.56971526'-0.29150248;'0.56971526'-0.29150248;MA504'0.57001287'-0.2932761;'0.57001287'-0.2932761;RW05'0.5705469'-0.2929317;MA550'0.57084143'-0.2925874;'0.57084143'-0.2925874;MONEC'0.5664705'-0.29374567;'0.57084143'-0.2925874;
CduRteCm='9'9;'9'9;'9'9;
CduRteSys=aaa1;1;1;
CduRtePrgL=;0;0;9.0;0.0;0.5705469;-0.2929317;LPMA;
CduRtePrgR=;0;0;9.0;0.0;0.5705469;-0.2929317;LPMA;
CduRtePrgC=;0;0;9.0;0.0;0.5705469;-0.2929317;LPMA;
EgtExcRemind=0000
FreeMsgW=W
FreeMsgC=C
FreeMsgA=A
FreeMsgM=M
FreeMsgS=S
HydData=102;102;101;80;52;53;50;51;
Gear=0;0;0;0;0;ccccc;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;209;208;208;209;210;211;211;208;209;210;210;209;211;208;208;210;211;209;0;0;
Flaps=500;500;500;500;500;500;750;750;750;750
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Will

Thanks, everyone, that's helpful.
Will /Chicago /USA

dhob

Both the Legacy and NGFMC can fly RF-legs. Before retrofitting the NGFMC on our 747-400s, we had OpSpec C063 approval for RF-legs for departures and arrivals. We were filed and flew RF-leg departures in HKG long before the NGFMC arrived.
RF-legs in the FAS were not authorized since these are only a feature of RNP AR approaches. It's not that the FMC couldn't fly it, but that we didn't have OpSpec C384 approval to fly RNP AR approaches.
The airplane must be certified for RNP AR approaches, and the AFM (Airplane Flight Manual) must include a statement that the aircraft is certified IAW AC 90-101 for RNP AR approaches. This is the problem for the 747-400. While Boeing and Honeywell sold the NGFMC as RNP AR capable, Boeing has not certified the airplane and added the appropriate additions to the AFM. We are working with Boeing to give them a 747-400 for flight test, which takes about five days to collect the FTE data. Once that is done, the certification will be added to the AFM, and then we can apply for and train RNP AR approaches.
The 747-8 AFM does include certification for RNP AR approaches to 0.10NM RNP. After the flight testing, the 747-400 certified RNP should be lowered from 0.30NM to closer to 0.10NM.
Finally, a little about nomenclature: RNAV (GPS) and RNAV (RNP) approaches are RNP-Specification procedures instead of RNAV-Specification. The difference between the two types is that RNAV (GPS) requires 1XRNP accuracy, 2XRNP containment, and 3XRNP for a buffer. RNAV (RNP) does not have the buffer, which is why Alaska Airlines can fly into places like Juneau with RNAV (RNP). RNAV (GPS) and RNAV (RNP) are the FAA names, while RNP, RNAV (GNSS), and RNP AR are the ICAO/EASA nomenclature.
A good summary is:
RNAV (GPS) = RNAV (GNSS) = RNP
RNAV (RNP) = RNP AR, and these approaches require OpSpec C384 with special training and may include RF-legs.

Hardy Heinlin

Quote from: dhob on Fri, 25 Oct 2024 18:04Both the Legacy and NGFMC can fly RF-legs. Before retrofitting the NGFMC on our 747-400s, we had OpSpec C063 approval for RF-legs for departures and arrivals. We were filed and flew RF-leg departures in HKG long before the NGFMC arrived.
Interesting. My source of information was a "Legacy/NG FMC Differences" document (from Atlas, I think, and partially Boeing) which only introduced RF legs in the NG FMC. -- OK, so it's not an FMC-technical thing but a general authorization issue ...


Quote from: dhob on Fri, 25 Oct 2024 18:04RF-legs in the FAS were not authorized ...
What's an FAS?

dhob

Should have been more clear, FAS: Final Approach Segment. Technically I should have said the entire instrument approach procedure, to include the missed approach segment. An RF leg could be included in the MAP, but typically requires TOGA to LNAV function like the 747-8.

Will

#8
Okay, so at least some B747s were RF capable with the Legacy FMC.

And at least some RF capable 747s cannot fly RNP AR approaches, not because the aircraft is unable to fly the courses, but because they lack RNP AR certification.

I'm noticing the terminology on charts now...

KPSP has "RNAV (RNP) Z Rwy 13R" and in the notes, it says "1. AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED. 2. RNP AR Apch, RF required."

While VNKT has "RNP Z Rwy 02 (AR)" and in the notes, it says "RNP AR apch. Authorization required. RF required."

And VHHH has "RNP Z Rwy 07R (AR)" without RF; in the notes it says "1. Authorization required." (No mention of RF, and no curved segments on the approach.)

While VHHH has "ATENA 2X RNAV (GNSS) DEPARTURE" with a subtitle: "RADIUS-TO-FIX (RF) LEG IS REQUIRED AND RF CAPABLE ACFT ARE ENCOURAGED TO FLY THIS SID, IF UNABLE REFER TO SID ATENA 3A".

This is informative.

Will /Chicago /USA

Cbf

It seems that all 744 are not certified to fly RNAV (RNP) AR approaches. PSX, with NG FMCs, allows to fly such approaches. Flying KELP RNAV Y (RNP) 08R with A/P and A/T, EGPWS pull up warning appears at 800Ft AGL (V/S approx 950/1000Ft/mn). Why?