Motion Platform

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

It is NOT bland overcooked!

[the mad hatter]

great links, and now the 100,000 + USD question I wonder how one can justify that outlay on a MSF platform?...unless its X Plane... IF one is going to spend that amount them surely you would want to capture the largest audience possible... or do you simple price it accordingly as an executive toy?  I am not knocking what people have done I am just curious to see how one justifies x for a un-certified product  this aside I did notice that the electric actuators have a much smaller foot print than the hydraulic feet. So Charles you do not need a three story building :-)

I have also noticed that there are a lot more engineers than pilots here maybe we could put our collective brains together and come up with a solution that will serve us all?  I dont think it would be that hard by way of example...

We could commission Gary for the software interface between PSX and the platform as we are all going to be using that software right. And that might be the hardest bit ( I do not know)... then the design phase  could we not group buy the items I think it could be quite suprising how competitive it could be to try it or at least make some investigations I am quite prepared to make the calls and do the leg work if someone (or group) would direct me with what to ask a spec sheet might be helpful as well.

just a thought
Bernard

edit  Maybe Matt could add some comment here from what Hardy wrote I think he might well have a platform we could gleam details from and reverse engineer the bugger maybe Farrok has one stashed away and is keeping mum again just a thought

edit 2  I have looked over the net maybe there a group or a person who is working on a single arm and would share what they have achieved to date the other thing is we would need to build two of these things at different locations it would seem that Australia would be one and one here in the states we would need both the space and a development budget but I am guessing that at the end of the day we could all have 6 doff platforms for around 12k USD naturally it would be prudent to make the information and the design public that seems fair to me, the other thing that makes this a tad easier is we are all doing the same platform so our weights etc etc are going to be the same yes?

[farrokh747]

maybe Farrok has one stashed away and is keeping mum again

ha ha, yes - it's right next to the 400hz genset.... and kidnapped CAE tecchies chained to the floor to keep it all going..

the crux of the biscuit seems to be:
1. do you have the space?
2. do you have the money?


fc

[Phil Bunch]

Does a motion platform really simulate good lateral and longitudinal g's?

I believe not, that is my option. Like to hear others.

I would like to have an F18 or whatever sim that provides up to say 10 or so G's.  Unless it can induce "blackouts" and "redouts" and require a G-suit, it just wouldn't be realistic...  Yet the only high-G force simulators I know of use large centrifuges, mostly to train fighter pilots how to resist G forces.  They don't provide rapidly varying G-forces AFAIK.
-------------------------------------
Even an airliner should be able to simulate up to and perhaps somewhat beyond its G-load limits.  Seems like that's +2 and -1.5 G's from very distant memory.  

A bit of humor, whose technical accuracy depends on how well I recall from distant memory the G-force limits for typical airliners.

I often tell friends (mostly but not entirely joking) that if they become afraid about large swings up and down while flying as a passenger in stormy weather, then they should look at the stewardess as she moves around the plane.  If she's floating in mid-air, the plane is experiencing about -1G, something it should be able to do safely.  If she's crushed hard against the ceiling, the plane is experiencing more than -1G and this may becoming a concern, especially if she can't get up off of the ceiling.    Similar concerns would appear if the stewardess has been crushed against the floor and can't readily get up due to G-loads.

Perhaps even the best full-motion simulators have a ways to go before they can realistically simulate the full range of G-forces even airliners may encounter!  Fighter planes and aerobatic planes are even more difficult to simulate!

[Will]

Phil, -1 G would have her walking comfortably upside down on the cabin ceiling, while the passengers hung in their seatbelts.  Down would be up.  She floats at 0G.

[Phil Bunch]

Phil, -1 G would have her walking comfortably upside down on the cabin ceiling, while the passengers hung in their seatbelts.  Down would be up.  She floats at 0G.

Thanks for the G-force calculation correction!

Good thing I never became a pilot, but we already knew that!  I fear I would make the same type of "brain slips" and "computational errors" while in flight.  One minute, I'd announce "set heading to 180 degrees" and it might be some time before I realized I really meant to say "set heading to 80 degrees".

Hmmm....didn't a US airliner forget to descend from cruise recently, while the crew messed with their laptop computers, and flew past their intended destination at cruise altitude?   I suspect many of us felt at least a brief pang of empathy, knowing each of us had done some similar foolish thing in our everyday lives many times.

Hopefully people will soon be completely replaced by (perfectly programmed) computers for all safety-sensitive purposes, such as piloting airliners or military airplanes.  (faint grins)  But only when perfectly programmed computers perfectly program themselves will the world be safe... (more faint grins)

[martin]

-1 G would have her walking comfortably upside down on the cabin ceiling

Yes, but how to make the turn from your head to your feet (and, later, vice versa) in a graceful manner? Are they taught this in Stewardess School?*

Not a mean feat; flies and such do it routinely, but then they have wings and a geometry altogether different from stewardesses.
 

EDIT: Ah I hit upon the solution: Leverage the synergy of the inevitable 0g phase between +1g and -1g (or vice versa)!

* I'm inclined to think so, as failure to execute this manoeuvre may easily result in uncalled-for garment effects (depending on the carrier-prescribed fashion)

[farrokh747]

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/content.php/337-Using-MS-Flight-Simulator-scenery-engine-as-a-visual-system

interseting

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

*drool*  real hardware

[torrence]

Not a mean feat; flies and such do it routinely, but then they have wings and a geometry altogether different from stewardesses.
 

My father (a WWII era aviator) told me they used to discuss this issue at bars in Pensacola - do they do a half roll or a half loop?  (the flys, not the stews).

Cheers,
Torrence

[martin]

do they do a half roll or a half loop?  (the flys, not the stews).

Tethered half-loop, apparently.

(a WWII era aviator) told me they used to discuss this issue at bars

...whereas we miserable sods have to make do with google...

But on the other hand we could even see a video clip -- were it allowed "in our area" ([size=8]probably concerns just me as I am N of 60°N. Latitudinist, that's what it is![/size]).

Bzzzzzzz - pflup,
Martin

Update*:

-- non-latitudinist video
(Warning: requires some situational awareness also from the viewer)

-- avionics and background
(don't miss this!)

-- bats are easier to see,
but face the complication not only of greater weight/mass, but also of not having a spare pair of legs to do the tethering for the half-loop! Actually, you can see that s/he effortlessly masters the halfrollloop. Harriers eat your fuel pump out...

Cheers,
Martin "Time flies -- they are surprisingly fast!" E.

* [size=8]An interesting google challenge: "fly landing upside-down" gets you a lot of stuff about aerobatics (intentional or otherwise); and even if you add "Musca" (House Fly = Musca domestica), you end up with e.g. "Fliegen als Privatpilot" (which can mean "flies as private pilot"(!) or "flying as a private pilot"...[/size]

[torrence]

Thanks Martin,

I knew science had solved this problem somewhere, but had forgotten the details.  Great videos - I was also 'out of the area'.  Where did you get it, Area 51?

Wow - I'm really embarrassed by the fly-brain stuff.  I've been associated with Caltech for over 40 years and I didn't even know we had a 'fly lab'!! :roll:

Anyway, "Holy Aerobatics, Batman!"

Cheers,
Torrence

[martin]

Where did you get it, Area 51?

I didn't get to view it, I just enviously provided the URL to those who might...

I didn't even know we had a 'fly lab'!! :roll:

Yes, the micro-organisms (such as post-grad.s, Doktoranden, etc.) make up the greater part of Academe's biomass but are still frequently overlooked...  

Cheers,
M

[Phil Bunch]

In the movie "2001, a Space Odyssey", the Pan Am stewardesses on the space airliner had velcro shoes I seem to recall.  Maybe there is hidden velcro around our cabins to help the cabin crew with negative G events?!

[torrence]

In PSX that's the secret function of the (non-functional?) Smoke Evac handle - Deploy the 0 g velcro!!

Cheers,
Torrence