Customizable towing?

[Aleks]

Is there an option to make a customized towing?

For example:
- Pushback 10 meters, then
- Turn nose to left by 90 degrees (sharp, medium or light turn angle), then
- Continue push by 5 more meters.

Even though I am using manual settings in Instructor->Services->Towing, I find that somtimes I would prefer to have more control over the towing.
Tried to search manual, but could not find any tips.
Perhaps I am just using the towing function incorrectly?

[Hardy Heinlin]

Some years ago I planned to add more programable variables per gate. But then some add-ons introduced further controls and so I discarded my plan.


|-|ardy

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Oh my.
Maybe I should ... maybe ... possibly ...

http://www.hoppie.nl/tug/

This was for PS1.3 ...

Tug Driver Programming
You program the tug driver by entering two to four figures on LSK6L:

Code Select Expand

pushback_time/pushback_heading/pullout_time/pullout_heading

[Gary Oliver]

PSX.NET allows you to push and then change left or right turns but still maybe we need more...

I wondered if we could do something like Better pushback... One for a rainy winters day.. An other challenge for Hoppie?

[voipmeister]

Better pushback is a great tool indeed.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

I'd rather come up with that final fantasy, a tug that can be driven with the usual car racing sim gear. With you looking from the tug up to the bottom-front of the 747 and you having to negotiate all mechanics including the tow bar link (grab-wheel tugs are an option).

Should be a few levels more difficult than landing the thing.

[Bluestar]

PSX.NET allows you to push and then change left or right turns but still maybe we need more...

I wondered if we could do something like Better pushback... One for a rainy winters day.. An other challenge for Hoppie?

I use that on x-plane 12 and it sure makes the pushback nice.

[voipmeister]

Oh my.
Maybe I should ... maybe ... possibly ...

http://www.hoppie.nl/tug/

This was for PS1.3 ...

Ha! I found the tug on your site, but discarded the idea of using it since it was 'old' - not that I have anything against old stuff, mind you.

Let's see what happens next..

[B747-400]

PSX.NET allows you to push and then change left or right turns but still maybe we need more...

I wondered if we could do something like Better pushback... One for a rainy winters day.. An other challenge for Hoppie?

Hi,

this UI looks great. But what I do not like on all PB Tools available right now is: you have to either manually steer the plane, or do all the settings and directions each single time / flight again.

All those settings should be saved to be used again instead.

Possible scenario:

Make all PB settings, save it to a file called LOWW_D29. So, when you start your next flight at LOWW stand D29, all you need to do is to enter LOWW and the stand number in the POS INIT page. Now the tool finds the file, get all the settings, and knows where to go, as soon as you call the truck driver.

So, more reality, less "PC gaming".

Just my 2ct, what do you think?

BR
Hans

[Hardy Heinlin]

That was my plan which I discarded, Hans, and possibly a public database where users can share their gate data.

Maybe this should become a general data format for all sim products in the world, including level-D sims.


|-|

[Gary Oliver]

I like that idea Hans

[B747-400]

That was my plan which I discarded, Hans, and possibly a public database where users can share their gate data.

Maybe this should become a general data format for all sim products in the world, including level-D sims.


|-|

A database sounds great. I'm afraid different sceneries render taxi lines and stands not at the same spot ... this could be a hassle.

I like that idea Hans

Tbh, it's not only an idea. Such a tool runs on my system. I wrote it months ago using AHK, as I do not have C or Java skills.

The coordinates are stored in a file like mentioned before. Unfortunately, I do not have the abilities to write a UI like Better pushback.

I position the aircraft manually, get the different points and save them in an ini file. No UI, all to be done manually. The tool uses PSXs internal pushback, and supports it with some additional calculated position inputs to make tighter turns.

All not really user friendly, but need to be done only one time each stand and working fine so far, once you get the coordinates adjusted.

Also, I created different sounds for the truck driver, to give commands like "start engines", "set brakes" etc.

Cheers
Hans

[Bluestar]

That was my plan which I discarded, Hans, and possibly a public database where users can share their gate data.

Maybe this should become a general data format for all sim products in the world, including level-D sims.


|-|

I just finished 3 hours flying a $34 Million level-D sim and the pushback was nice, except it was only from one gate at one city.  It was designed for standardization of procedures and communication between the cockpit and the ground crew. 

A database would not do me much good since I only do freight from places most folks don't go. 

[SwissMark]

Dear Community,

For MSFS2024 using the Aerosoft Toolbar Pushback Pro which works really well.
In PSX, when I use the 744 as outside model, I can plan the pushback but when it comes to initiating the pushback it asks me to "Release Parking Brake". PSX releasing parking brake; the 744 has no virtual cockpit and therefore can not release parking brake. In the Pushback Pro Interface the "Release Parking Brake" continues to stay illuminated; no way to extinguish and the push-back does not commence.

When you fly from e.g. Miami and are "stuck" in the cargo West apron, to conduct a proper pushback with the native PSX tow does not provide the ability as compared to the Pushback Pro tool.

Did I miss anything in terms of new developments or tools to get a pushback planned and performed that you end up where you supposed to be?

Will also be reaching out to the Pushback Pro folks to see if they have any ideas ....

Cheers and have a nice Sunday everyone

Mark

[macroflight]

If you use PSX.NET.MSFS, you cannot use any normal MSFS pushback tool since such tools try to push the MSFS plane, and the PSX-MSFS position sync is unidirectional. PSX can move the MSFS plane, MSFS cannot move PSX.

If we could get an option to temporarily reverse the PSX.NET.MSFS sync direction (e.g by sending an addon= message to PSX.NET.MSFS.Router), we could possibly use tools such as the Aerosoft Toolbar Pushback Pro or GSX for pushback.

The main benefit of that would be to leverage all the work e.g the GSX community has spent on making custom pushback profiles for various airports.

Another way would be to use an MSFS tool (e.g GSX) but only extract the pushback path data and use it from a native PSX tool that would then push/pull the PSX plane along the same path GSX would do.

If we can't do that, we could at least improve the interface to the PSX pushback. I know of at least two addons (PSX.NET.EFB and my own frankenusb) that allows you to control the normal PSX pushback from the sim. None of these are perfect

The EFB does not allow you to pre-select a target heading (useful if you know you want to turn 90 degrees and then stop) and also does not allow you to pull the plane forward (which I find useful when I need to stop at a specific position, e.g a tow release point).

FrankenUSB on the other hand only lets you change the selected target heading, and lacks the "keep turning left until told otherwise" feature that the EFB has.

And both are limited (just like the PSX native pushback they both use) to a single fixed turn radius.

I know that Gary tried to get GSX integrated into PSX.NET.MSFS but I think the only parts he got sort of working were stairs and ground vehicles. Not sure if that means "GSX pushback is impossible" or that he just never got around to it.

IIRC Hardy recommended in another thread to not use the built-in PSX towing commands if we wanted to make a better PSX tow truck, instead we should move PSX by injecting position change commands as this gives full control over the speed, direction and and turn radius.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

A long time ago, in a country far away, I made the PS1 (one!) Tug, which used a <TUG prompt on the MCDU to give access to manual tug controls, and could load pushback paths "so far back, then nose heading xyz, push further back, nose abc, pull forward and end nose pqr". Obviously it will not work at all with PSX (ten) but it did its job well for the old one. The same principle can be applied to a PSX Tug.

I once fantasized about using a race sim steering wheel/pedal set to make an actual tug sim. Use a scenery generator to have the from-below-facing-aft view and then simulate all the hinges and the tow bar and what not so that pushing back became an acquired skill. Ideal for betting games at World Flight events. But this never came true...


Hoppie

[macroflight]

Manual towing is nice (and fun!) when you have the time and mental capacity.

When you're busy with engine start and checklists and VATSIM ATC wants you to do a complex push that ends at a specific release point, an automated tug would be nice to have.

[voipmeister]

Manual towing is nice (and fun!) when you have the time and mental capacity.

When you're busy with engine start and checklists and VATSIM ATC wants you to do a complex push that ends at a specific release point, an automated tug would be nice to have.

Agreed, the best thing to have would be a Better Pushback variant for PSX

I guess the basics could be plotting a route in an external app (like Aeromap, but with relevant airport GEO data), converting the route to a series of connected coordinates and headings, and sending them to PSX with a certain speed. Possibly offering to record/save the sequence like Hans described.

[SwissMark]

If you use PSX.NET.MSFS, you cannot use any normal MSFS pushback tool since such tools try to push the MSFS plane, and the PSX-MSFS position sync is unidirectional. PSX can move the MSFS plane, MSFS cannot move PSX.

Thanks macroflight.

Assuming most have Navigraph, they are introducing a smart taxi planner - would it be possible to link or grab coordinates et al from that and inject into PSX?

As far as saving specific push-back instructions, to keep it IRL, could be handled via a audio command such as
"Ground, we are cleared to push on F facing east"
At some airports, like in Hong Kong, there are more specific instructions such as "Push back color red/blue" so the audio commands would need to be specific.

And macroflight is correct in my opinion, during push there are many tasks to perform and perhaps doing a full manual push back would be too distracting.

Love the ideas ....

[B747-400]

Hi guys,

I compiled a little video about my working pushback solution! Find the core infos in the video.

Additional to that: the "database" with all those manually predefined coordinates is nothing more than single files. One file for one gate and one push direction.

Example:
for a pushback to SE from gate F23 at LOWW airport, my tool is looking for a coordinate file with the name LOWW_F23 [SE].

The definition of this coordinates is not very userfriendly as mentioned in an earlier posting, but I have to do it only one time for one gate. I have to redo it, when I change the scenery vendor, because the gate and taxiline positions are different then.

As the turning radius of PSX is not tight enough, I have to give some additional "advices" to PSX to master tight spots on some airports. All this is sometimes "try and error" at the time of pushback path definition.

More infos in the video as mentioned. Looking fwd to your questions, guess you might have some ...

Cheers
Hans