CPDLC PSX VS CPDLC Hoppie

[Antonio T.]

Hi ,

I'm brand new to PSX and I have to say that it greatly exceeded my expectations and the price I can only say is fair for the complexity of the simulation.

Now I´m trying to setup CPDLC using the Hoopie network, and I assume that the it can directly integrate ( by this I mean to replace the default CPDLC implementation) but I have been unable to make it happen.

When I followed the online tutorial here https://www.hoppie.nl/acars/prg/air/, but in the end it reports Something wrong with your PS1.3 PAth setting.

So the question is , can Hoopie CPDLC replace the one by PSX or how do you guys fly online using CPDLC and PSX ?

Thanks !

[Gary Oliver]

Hi,

This is a project a few of us were looking to pick up but no one did.

It's currently not possible to use PSX CPDLC with Hoppie/VATSIM.

Maybe a project for a cold winters weekend.

Cheers
Gary

[Antonio T.]

Thanks Gary , I will try using MSFS + WidePSX + The all-in-one package.

Thanks

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

My ACARS network is still fine but the old PS1.3 software definitely has not been adjusted for PSX.

To fly online you first need to get something else to work, just connecting ACARS isn't sufficient as no controller would see you. You need to get one of the many scenery generators to link up with PSX and then the usual software for this scenery generator will provide the ATC link.

I've never thought about inserting the old CPDLC client for PS1.3 into PSX however it may be time to do so. CPDLC has seen a tremendous explosion in interest over the last two years. Probably because it finally got rolled out in the real world as well.

No promises ... but ...


Hoppie
(with one "o")

[Gary Oliver]

Yes please Hoppie!

[Christian Wiegand]

Oh yeah, please do it

[John Golin]

Please Hoppie I'm one of the 'didn't get to it' ones... I couldn't work out a good integration as PSX always took control of some things (e.g. accepting logon).

Still a couple of weeks to go to WorldFlight. lol!

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

I don't think I can "take over" the PSX CPDLC, it would become a new add-on with a new prompt. Unless I overlook an option that exists for this case?

Just checking: would it be sufficient if there was a PSX add-on that literally puts an interface to most functions of Hoppie's ACARS on the MCDUs, using whatever prompt (<HOPPIE would be an extremely silly example) and only talks to the ACARS server, no connection elsewhere? I suppose it then requires a scenery generator with VATSIM/IVAO network login on the side, else no controller would see you?


Hoppie

[John Golin]

That'd work well... I was trying to hijack the ATC pages so it was seamlessly integrated with all CDUs...

[John Golin]

HACARS?

[Hardy Heinlin]

The FANS-1 stuff in PSX is accessible by add-ons via Qs and Qi variables:

Qs466="FansDn"; Mode=DELTA; Min=0; Max=500;
Qs467="FansUp"; Mode=DELTA; Min=0; Max=500;
Qs468="FansDnResp"; Mode=DELTA; Min=0; Max=500;
Qs469="FansUpResp"; Mode=DELTA; Min=0; Max=500;
Qs470="FansLastLog"; Mode=START; Min=0; Max=500;
Qs471="FansBasics"; Mode=ECON; Min=50; Max=500;

Qi221="FansAtcMsgId"; Mode=ECON; Min=0; Max=9999;
Qi222="FansCont"; Mode=ECON; Min=0; Max=3;

Documentation on request in the Networkers subforum.


|-|ardy

[John Golin]

Thanks Hardy!

The difficulty I had was the LOGON process was automated so PSX always logs on to the CPDLC station, I couldn't control the logged in state and just use the UI and logic...

[Hardy Heinlin]

What do you mean by "PSX always logs on to the CPDLC station"?

[John Golin]

- On a CDU select 'ATC' and the ATC/LOGON STATUS page appears.
- Line select any 4 letters into LSK1 ('LOGON TO');  lets use JOHN for example  
- Press LSK1R ('LOGON -> SEND') to initiate connection.

PSX will now always logon to the ICAO station (which makes perfect sense with the integrated CPDLC in the instructor station).

For external integration we'd need to take over the success or failure to ensure people only get a successful login for stations that are online on Hoppie's network.

Unless I'm missing something - it's been a looong time since I looked at it - it's possible there were some other challenges as well that I'm not recalling right now... need more coffee on this wet Sydney Sunday.

Side note:
Although not CPDLC, Hoppies network also provides ACARS serices and variables I had in my notes are;

Qs462="AcarsTelexDn"; Mode=ECON; Min=0; Max=125;
Qs463="AcarsTelexUp"; Mode=ECON; Min=0; Max=125;
Qs405="AcarsScrPads"; Mode=ECON; Min=7; Max=500;
Qs485="AcarsAtis"; Mode=XDELTA; Min=4; Max=500;
Qi149="AcarsMsg"; Mode=ECON; Min=0; Max=1;
Qs464="MetarsUp"; Mode=ECON; Min=0; Max=3000;

[Hardy Heinlin]

For a special inhibit function, I could add another Qi variable with the values 1 and 0, and when an add-on sets this to 1, the internal PSX ATC robot will never establish the logon but the add-on will then have the full logon control.

Alternatively, you could try this:

The Qs "FansBasics" includes several variables separated by semicolons. The first three are:

logonTimer (integer)
logonTo (string)
actCtr (string)

When logged on, PSX will send the Qs starting with something like "12;YSSY;YSSY;" etc.

When the pilot has logged off, PSX will send the Qs starting with "0;;;" etc.

In other words, if your add-on receives this Qs with the first three variables not empty, you know it has logged on. And if you don't want to allow this logon, you may try to resend the Qs with the first three variables empty. This should make it log off immediately. But maybe the pilot's controls will flash and dingdong for a second anyway, and that's not elegant. So a special inhibit function might help ...


|-|ardy

[John Golin]

I think the innhibition of the ATC Robot is the solution we need for the reason you stated.

Unfortunately the second officers have me busy today so can't redo my testing - not sure if Hoppie or Gary can verify that the logon issue is the only one before comitting to the change!

Integrating with PSX native ATC is a beautiful solution for obvious reasons, and from an addon developer perspective requires less coding

[Hardy Heinlin]

How long does it take until your add-on can tell whether a logon can be established?

I just realized there's a delay of circa 10 seconds until the PSX robot establishes the logon. If you cancel that before the delay is passed, there'll be no undesired momentary logon effects, I think.

[John Golin]

Could be a couple of minutes.  The interaction with Hoppie by clients is at an interval specified by the client - 1 minute recommended - so a delay before the ATC client even gets the request.

Then add a buffer for ATC to accept the logon etc - could be minutes to get a response.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

How long does it take until your add-on can tell whether a logon can be established?

To reach out to the network, a second.
Then the controller needs to see the request and answer, either positive or negative. I do see quite a few negatives as people try to log on to a station that is outside their current airspace.
Typical real-world performance requirement for CPDLC is RCP240 -- 240 seconds round trip, including human response time. That is officially for ATC to airplane, but let's do the opposite, too. This is for oceanic CPDLC. I think domestic CPDLC uses RCP130.

Interestingly there are also combined stations to allow pilots to log on to the station they are under, without knowing it. KUSA is the best example. Internally the handovers are still done but all automated. However this is a ground function; the airplane only processes handovers.


Hoppie

[Hardy Heinlin]

OK, I'll add an inhibit control to the next PSX update.

I thought when a human ATC is available for a certain area, the VATSIM/IVAO data system would indicate this availability automatically and promptly while that human ATC might be drinking a cup of tea and holding a pizza in the other hand.

Is there anything else I could add to the FANS model?


|-|ardy