Flight Deck Solutions PSX cockpit

[rivetrider]

I caught this YouTube video. He used to have a 737 NG cockpit at his home. This is his new FDS+PSX 747

Must be a lot of USD investment in this.

http://youtu.be/DP4mJVLHHGQ

JT

[cavaricooper]

Yes JT, Chris is now active on this forum- view more info in several posts under "Accessories".... interesting he also is an N scale aficionado....

C

[KaiTak]

Hmmm, I posed some basic questions regarding their 747 components like the max size of suitable LCDs and if they could add a cutout for an RMI standby instrument below the clock - after several e-mails, they said no way, requested me to phone them because they would not want to answer my questions by e-mail and finally, when phoning them, told me they had so many customers that they do not want to do business with someone who is so impolite as to ask questions and wanting them answered first before making the purchase. I got the impression of them being very arrogant, can't help it. At least my experience. Quality seems good, but they do not need to sell any items to small-scale customers like hc builders, it seems. I would have been happy to place an order with them before that phone conversation.

[fdspcos]

Interesting play on the wording here frankly. Having been at this for a very long time I have learnt when I need to have a conversation. Some people come across very poorly in emails to us and when we can't get past that we use voice. In this scenario, not impressed with how this person approached one our people in Europe (who is amazing!)...
The following email that came from him was not ok by me either.
The phone call, went south quite quickly.
99.5% of the people we work with are so amazing. I watch Steve working with them, getting things sorted personally on the phone, or with team viewer.
Mr. Kai Tak, sorry to say but we go well "over and above" with our customers. Always have and likely why we have built a very solid reputation. Sorry you are in the .5% group. I am sure you can find someone else to work with.
Just won't be us.
Sad I have to be in this great forum defending myself.
Hello to everyone btw!!!
Peter Cos

[Gary Oliver]

Kaitak,

That is totally the opposite experience many of us on this forum have had with FDS.

They work very closely with polite sim builders to provide brilliant products and provide amazing support.  They have many years of experience, foreseeing and solving problems before most of us sim builders think about them.

If you were asking them to cutout an RMI did you think about the very tight space to fit LCD screens to make it work?  They would have done this before if it was possible but I doubt it is.

There are not many home cockpit suppliers who are available any time for a chat on Skype or phone to discuss our projects and how they can help.

Unfortunately there must be more to this story?

Cheers
Gary

[KaiTak]

Sorry, I don't want to spoil this great forum.

Gary, you are quite right, I had exactly the same opinion on FDS as you and others have, and that's why I wanted to place my order with FDS and no one else. It may very well be that there is no space for using an LCD display for RMI (I was thinking of a tiny 7" for RMI and clock, or even a 4'' display which has been used successfully by other 747 cockpit builders before me for that very purpose). I did ask how much space there is for LCD screens. It was simply I did not receive an answer until today. Still can't believe it. I really had no reason to be impolite and simply wrote to the European FDS representative I had some basic questions and whether it was possible to add a further cutout to the MIP. As a reply, the European FDS representative wrote to me an e-mail, telling me exactly FDS said "no way" and that FDS would not have the slightest idea why I had made such a strange proposal. This was the German wording. Moreover, after asking politely 3 times, I still was not told (by E-Mail) the mechanical dimensions of the glareshield casing or the overall size of the MIP, not to mention the weight of these things (shipping costs). In comparison, other companies are glad to reply by e-mail, answering questions, having their assembly manuals ready for download, and closing "If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to write to us." But FDS seemed to make a mystery of their products.

Simply, I could not understand this and therefore wrote to the European representative that I was ready to place my order, but, as a paying customer, would really like to have my questions answered before, because FDS must know the dimensions of its own products, and by now, given the fact that much time had passed and several e-mails exchanged, I would really appreciate getting a clear and definite answer now, at the same time pointing out "please apologize if I sound a bit upset, I don't want to be rude." Maybe he couldn't translate the more subtle meanings of the wording into English properly? Be it as it may, I think this is regrettable, but if I buy a car, I want to know the horsepower and gas-mileage rating before paying for it, it's that simple.

I really cannot understand why the business conversation I had with FDS when I phoned them was not matter-of-fact but emotional. The only thing I learned from FDS was praising the European representative as an outstanding person and that they didn't like my (German) e-mail which was forwarded to them. No question, the customer of a highly specialized product is not always "Mr. Right", but neither is the vendor, even a renowned one. Both should listen to each other before speaking. However, a customer does not need to justify himself if he wants to spend his money, but this feeling was conveyed by FDS, at least it seemed so to me, and very much so.

Now everyone may judge himself.

Glad that your experiences with FDS were much better.

K.

[Chris Kilroy]

I can only second Gary's comments. I've found everyone at FDS (especially Steve, with whom I interact the most) to be very friendly and accommodating.

A general word to the wise, as this isn't the first post I've seen like this one in the forum over the past couple of months (just my free advice, likely worth exactly what you paid for it) :

The cockpit builder community tends to be a pretty tight-knit group of people who know each other and tend to watch each others' backs. I am still flabbergasted by how much knowledge has been imparted on me, and how many software solutions (which allow PSX to really shine in a home cockpit environment) have been made available to me in return for nothing more than saying "thank you." Gary, Mark, Jon Boe, the FDS guys, and many others are all fantastic people. People without whom my own 744 sim wouldn't have been possible. I'd think long and hard before I started burning bridges with them.

[the mad hatter]

Wow you have had you fingers slapped golden rule of home building never slag off any supplier  or the community will close ranks on you as you have just seen.. and you will pay for being a naughty boy by having to purchase elsewhere ..which in turn has its own problems ..now that being said if you have your heart set on the RMI here is your solution ..get hold of aircraft dismantlers and for once be polite buy the MIP and a RMI get hold of simstack because it's am arinic instrument as to seeking dims why I assume you were asking for mechanical dims not overal... if I was in the business of producing parts I too guard them but overall dims I would not take issue with..

What I like about you is that you are now in doggy do and it's not me for once :-)

[KaiTak]

I fully agree on what both of you you wrote about this great community and that the hc builders and the vendors have a mutual interest in one another. It is unbelievable how many input so much time and effort into great addons free of charge. First and foremost Hardy, without whom there wouldn't be the software basis for a 747 home cockpit, and all the others too. And I only had prompt and friendly replies from hc suppliers, never had any negative experience.

@ The mad hatter: I do not have to justify myself, just for information: I HAD been very polite in all my e-mails to Mr. Klein who was most of the time the only guy I got response from, only when he got impolite to a certain degree instead of revealing any further basic data such as size and weight, I replied to him the same style, admitting I felt a certain impatience, apologizing at the same time in the very same e-mail. I daresay I had never becoming insulting in any of the thousands of e-mails I wrote since I first went online in 1995.

Even more so was I totally disappointed when the one supplier mentioned above utterly unexpectedly turned away from me although my order was ready to be placed, only after requesting me to phone them instead of sending me an e-mail with this message. I have never experienced such a thing in my life, and I have mail-ordered many exotic items on 4 continents so far for 20 years by now. Not a single bad encounter. I wish the company in Ontario had answered, after several polite and enthusiastic e-mails by me, only a few questions with a fraction of the eagerness people here in the forum are willing to help each other. BTW, never got an e-mail response from Steve except for an automatic message, although I sent all my mails both to Steve and the other owner because I did not know who wanted to reply, and also got no e-mail  from the other owner until on finals, he had just forwarded my mail to Europe. Well, I didn't mind at all.

I think it is fruitless to discuss endlessly these matters, however, I will stand firm by my opinion that as a paying customer, one has not to beg or to justify oneself for the wish to spend money, and of course the same applies to the the supplier who can choose with whom to come to terms, it's all a question of mutual respect, and this requires listening first and understand what the partner has to say, then considering this and finally, giving an honest and polite reply. But it takes two for achieving that goal.

Certainly a good idea to look for the real thing or to make a panel oneself.

Best,

K.

[Hardy Heinlin]

I have no idea, but could it be that there was a chain reaction of technical and emotional misunderstandings?

How about a restart and a second chance?


Best wishes :-)

|-|ardy

[KaiTak]

Exactly. Yes Hardy, I think you made a point, this is, in my opinion, the abstract of the whole story, and this is why I say listen first, understand what he says, and after that, give a reply. It was FDS who told me they don't want to do any business, I am not ruling out a restart.

[OmniAtlas]

Hi K.,

Unfortunately Peter and Steve can be very busy at times so they may not get back to you right away with your request. Steve has to transverse the Globe and setup flight sims all over the world, and Peter manages all the sales -- for such a small team it can sometimes be hard to keep track of conversations.

My suggestion would be to e-mail Peter and Steve again with your request (I had to do so with mine several times for a quote) and they will eventually answer.

I think in this line of niche hobby or business everyone has to be respectful to each other -- it is very small, but growing

As Hardy mentioned perhaps it was just a misunderstanding and Peter and K can have another chat? I am sure you both want the same goal -- FDS wants business, and K would like a flight sim -- I don't see it more clearly in black and white as that.

Regards,

Ben

[KaiTak]

Hi Ben
Thanks Ben for your clear statement. I fully agree that everyone has to be respectful to each other, and we both have the same interest. As a community with a niche interest, it's important to realize we have common goals and should cooperate, not regarding others as competitors. I think this forum clearly shows that this sense of community is very strong. Let's see how things develop.
Best.
K.

[fdspcos]

Our door is not closed. When we work with a "customer" they lose that title and it becomes far more personal. Those that work with us (more so with Steve) have confirmed that here.
Our 747 product is not as "off the shelf" as our 737 product. I rarely sell 747 product by email as it really does require a discussion.
In this case there were several custom elements/questions that only I or Steve could likely address. We also have logic about the design of our MIP that needs to be explained. Once that is done the "requirement" usually shifts as the complexity involved is now on the table. Everyone aims high, we get that. We also get what comes with lofty goals.
As Omni says, "we get pretty busy here". I can tell you that we are beyond busy this year having several really large commercial projects mixed into a long string of trainer contracts. Could not be more pleased about this as it means stability for FDS. 16 years to date and looking like many more to go.
Emotions. Do I get emotional? Take things personally? You bet. Guilty. From my end, I am "all in" here. Hopefully this was my annual digression. Happens.
My apologies if that was the case.
Our commitment to the PSX group is solid. Steve and I want it to be. Hardy has been an amazing spirit for the 747 crowd and delivered. We want to work in that same spirit.
Peter