Thrustmaster 16000 M

[cagarini]

Yesterday I learned from Alex that there was a cheap joystick with the same HAL sensor technology used in the expensive TM Warthogs - the TM 16000 M, so, I searched for one in the stores nearby, and got it for only €40,00

At home I was using a broken x52 Pro, and my rudder is the Saitek Combat Pro. The x52 Pro joystick unit had all of it's axis functional, but none of the buttons and rocker switches worked. Although it is still my 2nd best ever joystick, after installing the new 16000M and calibrating it in PSX, I can tell you it is the most precise, and cheap, joystick I ever used.

I was able to set the deadzones for pitch and roll as short as 2, but it could be 0, because the joystick is extremely precise in centering.

Driving the 744 in the Thessaloniki stormy approach is a charm now - Whow!  

I truly recommend for those interested in what is probably the best cost / quality ratio of the available options .

[Ivo de Colfmaker]

Hi Jose,
Thanks for the tip.
I have been in doubt weather to buy the warthog stick,it is not that well suited for left hand users.
This one however is, and altough the resolution is not as much as the warthog, it is still much more then the one I have now!
Just placed an order,will have it tonight.

Hopefully my handflying skills will improve :mrgreen:
Ivo

[cagarini]

Ivo,

you made a good choice, IMO. I am very pleased with mine, in PSX, but also for the intense dogfights in DCS World and IL2 Battle of Stalingrad

[falconeye]

Hi,
I bought the Thrustmaster 16000M and was able to test it a little bit today. I have to admit it is really much more easier to fly with this joystick then with my pro flight yoke system from Saitek. Perhaps so easy that it is feeling a little bit unrealistic.   To my surprise the deadzones are not as precise as with the Saitek. The difference in the roll axis is sometimes more then 10. Don't know if this is normal. With the Saitek I use 2 in the neutral zone. But for 37€ it was a good deal I think.
Cheers

[cagarini]

Yes,

after 2 weeks with it, and while it works great for DCS and IL2 BoS, I did notice that the deadzones aren't that precise, at least not as good as those I have with my x52 Pro.

This is particularly evident in PSX when we pull / push the "column" all the way - an unawanted but  noticeable roll input at the ends of the travel will be created.

As you put it, not bad for the price :-)

[falconeye]

After two days of testing, I found now, that the two axis are returning always exactly to zero. Don't know what was wrong on my first little test.
My flying skills have improved dramatically with the Thrustmaster. The Saitek control wheel feels better, but I am not able to control the rolling axis as precise as with the Thrustmaster. Unfortunately I can not use the Saitek throttles with the Thrustmaster so I have to look for another solution.
Cheers

[Ivo de Colfmaker]

Hi
like falconeye is saying , the axis always return to 0 and are rock solid, no noise or jitters.
and the first ever for me to fit my hand like a glove.
very pleased with it.
Regarding the dead zone, these are just my personal thoughts, and maybe completely wrong.
I cannot believe that in the  real aircraft the  yoke would have a dead  zone, it seems strange to me that an input, however small , is not followed by the response of the intended control surface.
We like to have this dead zone because we pull the stick out of center to the left or right when pull it up or down, thus having some margin to compensate for very poor hardware, in fact, these are toys.
however , I find that with my saitek pro flight yoke, or my mad catz flightstick, who have a large deadzone, it is much more difficult to fly. the tendency to overcompensate is great .
the thrustmaster  is sensitive, but very easy in compensating this sensitivity, at least that is what I think.
I don't know the  travel distance of the elevators input on the yoke, but the  ailerons input are 90 degrees either side. This makes it much easier to control then a joystick, pulling the yoke towards you , a small input to the left or right will not make much difference.
on a joystick with an max. deflection angle of 60 degrees from full left to right it very rapidly becomes a problem.
having said that, this is clearly the  best stick I have so far
ivo

[Ivo de Colfmaker]

Hi
I thought I had  a solution, but it does not work concerning the saitek  throttles.
The connection  on the throttles is a PS2 connector and plugged in on the main yoke body.
I bought a PS2 to USB adapter, but it is been recognized by windows as a mouse.
not visible in PSX usb page , thus not possible to assign an axis to it.
the only thing I can do, though not elegant is to connect the  yoke and throttle , put the yoke out of sight, and disable all yoke  axis and buttons.
this way I can use the  throttles.
ivo

[frumpy]

There is a USB-Version of the throttles, but I have no clue
if they work: http://www.amazon.de/Saitek-Pro-Flight-Throttle-Quadrant/dp/B000TCEU4Q#productDetails

[falconeye]

I have the USB version of the throttles. They work together with the Saitek Pro Flight yoke. But not if you connect the Thrustmaster and the throttles together on two USB ports.I have tested this only for an IMac. Perhaps it will work under Windows. Or there exist an solution with other throttles.
One word to the Saitek yoke. The problem I think is (at least with the yoke I have) that if you make very small corrections to the left or right (aileron) the numbers row on the USB page in PSX will show numbers between 25 to 40. If I make small corrections with the thrustmaster it will show numbers between 5 to 10. This means you can make smaller corrections and are not in danger to overcompensate. And I doubt you can influence this behavior of the Saitek with the settings in the neutral zone.
I was flying in an A320 simulator last year and as far as I remember there was no deadzone you could feel.

[Mundyas]

Just bought a second hand Thrustmaster 16000 M. It works really well for me on PSX. A rock solid approach much better than my usual with my old joystick - with which  I could never seem to fly very precisely. Throttle is now very precise I find and other controls very easy to control the aeroplane..

I am now looking forward to reviewing Peter's tutorials again now I can fly more precisely than before. I might pass my checkride now!!

[cagarini]

Just bought a second hand Thrustmaster 16000 M. It works really well for me on PSX. A rock solid approach much better than my usual with my old joystick - with which  I could never seem to fly very precisely. Throttle is now very precise I find and other controls very easy to control the aeroplane..

I am now looking forward to reviewing Peter's tutorials again now I can fly more precisely than before. I might pass my checkride now!!

But, are you using rudder pedals, or th e twist axis? That also makes a huge difference, specially in the 744 during a x-wind takeoff / landing, or under engine failure scenarios. Truly mandatory.

[Mundyas]

Hi Jose
Thanks for your comments.

At the moment I have been practising my basic flying skills with everything working properly. (I am a bit of a tyro flyer really you know!)

So I am only using the twist function for the rudder at the moment.

Rudder pedals would undoubtebly be the way to go in the future. I will have to think about them and which ones to use?

Notwithstanding - even without  rudder pedals I am finding it much more saisfying to fly than with my old joystick.

Andrew

[cagarini]

Yes, indeed the TS16000 is very smooth and precise.

A Saitek Combat Pro rudder system will be good, and not expensive. That's what I am presently using.

[Mundyas]

Thanks Jose
I will look into buying that rudder system.

Andrew