Professional use of the simulator

[karelwhuis]

having discovered this wonderful work of art, I wonder if it is possible to utilise real world navigation information for semi professional use. I am a B737NG captain with many years of worldwide flying experience. I have flown the B777 for many years as well. It would be nice to be able to have a look at other approach and departure procedures with this simulator. It does not matter that much that this is a B747 as it approximates the operation of other Boeing types. It is a big 737 as far as I am concerned. Both the FMS and MCP is basic Boeing with some minor differences. I am not so much interested in scenery but more in procedures. Thanks





hoppie edited the title

[Hardy Heinlin]

The plan is to provide a navigation database update to PSX users once per year, by download, for a small fee. PSX's data supplier is Navtech, Inc. -- Precision Simulator has been, and will be, used by professional customers like universities, schools, airlines etc. For this reason, Navigraph and Aerosoft cannot provide data to PSX as they are not authorized by their suppliers to sell data to professional customers. Whether or not these agreements can be modified in the distant future cannot be determined yet.

[Sylle]

Hi Hardy,

You could try to get more info on how Flight1 tackled this issue.

Their iFly 737NG add-on for Microsoft Flight Simulator and Prepar3D is sold under different licenses - going from the pure entertainement version for FS2004 & FSX to the academic use version for Prepar3D all the way up to a commercial training version (Flight1tech).
Interesting is that ALL versions can use either the Navigraph or the Aerosoft Navdata Pro data.

Regards,
Sylvain

[Juggler]

Count me in for regular nav db update requesters!

[Hardy Heinlin]

To clarify a things ...

PSX is not an add-on for Microsoft Flight Simulator.

A monthly nav database update would cost over thousand dollars for each PSX customer annually.

One cannot buy one subscription and share it among multiple users; that would be piracy.

It's not allowed to decode PSX's nav database (reverse engineering) to provide third party databases to PSX, unless there is an explicit permission.

The plan is to provide an Aerowinx nav database download once per year for a small fee (less than 20 Euro). This fee is used to compensate the costs that I'm paying to the original database provider. If this download system cannot finance the costs, I'll have to quit the agreement wth my provider, and PSX won't get any updates at all anymore. -- In other words: Third party database providers with an "entertainment-only license" not only have no permission, they would also bypass the Aerowinx database offer, and thus gain full control of the flight simulation database market. Aerowinx would lose its independancy (no fees anymore to compensate the costs), and the PSX customerbase would have to rely solely on Aerosoft and Navigraph. They are all honest businessmen. No problem with that. But it won't work due to those two problems described above: the license problem and the independancy problem.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[Juggler]

Is it possible to make updates at least for so called autumn-winter (cold weather ops) and spring-summer seasons (warm weather ops) twice a year?
Is it possible for Navtech to have a license plan for PSX for professional customers? It shouldn't cost as much as navdata for real planes. Or maybe professional PSX license with regular updates with extra cost or annual fee (more than 20 euro ofcourse)?

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

I believe the industry isn't ready yet for a gray area between pro and entertainment. Either you pay for a MSFS-style license or you get data you are allowed to fly with (but usually not in directly loadable format, so missing the costs for the final transformation).


Hoppie

[Hardy Heinlin]

Juggler, no, I'm sorry. It's not only about database distribution. It's also about the working time required to process the ARINC 424 data, and to test and maintain the quality on a monthly basis.

PSX, with its low price of only 347 Euro, is not designed to replace real-world flight planning. It's designed to serve as an additional systems and instrument training tool, to fill the gap between static CBTs and full flight simulators. The focus should be put on systems and instrument training in general, not on familiarization with the latest nav data updates. There are no error checks, no warranty, no service bulletins whatsoever.


|-|ardy

[andrej]

Hello Juggler,

I am not sure how you use PSX and how much is the navigation database crucial to your ops, but there is a little workaround.

If you do use PFPX and subscribe to their database updates, then I would not worry much about 'outdated' PSX database. You can export routes in PSX route format and load them directly in via MCDU. This is how I utilize the PFPX export feature, without any problems.

Constrains and conditions described by Hardy are acceptable (to me) and I rather have less frequent database updates (semi-annual, which should not be very dramatic), than none at all (coming from PS1.3, trust me 6 months is quite up-to-date   ).

Cheers,

[Dennis B]

I second Andrej's post. PFPX provides coordinates for each waypoint on the printouts as well as in the generated .route file. You can get a bundled download version of PFPX + Topcat for about EUR 60,- .

[Juggler]

Juggler, no, I'm sorry. It's not only about database distribution. It's also about the working time required to process the ARINC 424 data, and to test and maintain the quality on a monthly basis.

PSX, with its low price of only 347 Euro, is not designed to replace real-world flight planning. It's designed to serve as an additional systems and instrument training tool, to fill the gap between static CBTs and full flight simulators. The focus should be put on systems and instrument training in general, not on familiarization with the latest nav data updates. There are no error checks, no warranty, no service bulletins whatsoever.

What about twice a year - 1st of march and 1st of september?
Is it possible? With additional price, for sure!

[andrej]

Constrains and conditions described by Hardy are acceptable (to me) and I rather have less frequent database updates (semi-annual, which should not be very dramatic), than none at all (coming from PS1.3, trust me 6 months is quite up-to-date   ).

I certainly misspoke here for which I do apologize.

Despite writing my reply on semi-annual basis, Hardy clearly stated up-date will occur on annual basis (ceteris paribus). Even an update once per year (given current circumstances) is acceptable as rest of my post still holds.  

I do hope (wish) for market conditions to change so we may have access to more frequent updates, but overall PSX experience does not change if using 11 month old database (even if not using the PFPX and its import function) or 1 month old one.

Cheers,

[Hardy Heinlin]

What about twice a year - 1st of march and 1st of september?
Is it possible?

Cycle xx03 (March) is possible. One cycle per year.

[stoechiometrisch]

Dear Sir

I am a new user....

§§§ My 1st question:

Are alle the intermediate updates required or  CAN/MUST I DIRECTLY INSTALL PSX-UPD V 10.15 (given on top of the forum page?

Actually installed: v 10.0.0 - from DVD

PC: high-end, 64-bit, W10

My actual version: 10.0.0, from DVD.

§§§ Second question:

Is Navtech Inc. the correct source for NAV DATA upd?

Actual version: 1403

i thank you very much for your help!

Best wishes from

Stoechiometrisch, Switzerland

[Hardy Heinlin]

Dear Stoechiometrisch,

updates are always direct updates over any version. So go directly to the latest update on the update page. Also follow the instructions on that page (note the three warnings in big colored letters).

The latest nav database update is cycle 1703 from Navblue (formerly called Navtech). The next nav database update will be released in March 2018.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[stoechiometrisch]

Merci beaucoup
Muchas gracias
Grazie mille
Obrigado
Dankä vüumau (Swiss dialect (Bernese).........sounds apocalyptic.....don't try.....)

Stoechiometrisch

Your SST-reply-V is simply unbelievable........

I shall follow your acvice.............

[Will]

Hello Juggler,

What andrej says is worth repeating, to make sure everyone gets the message... If you use PFPX, you will always be current in PSX with real-world ops. Here's how it works. PFPX is updated monthly. When you export a PFPX route to PSX, it includes all the procedures and waypoints from PFPX in their real positions.

So let's say you're flying the MARTINI6 departure, STOLI transition. In the real world, the waypoint STOLI is moved thirty miles to the south and renamed VODKA. Because PFPX is updated monthly, PFPX has the new name and location of the waypoint VODKA (formerly STOLI). When you export your route to PSX, PFPX gives the latitude, longitude, and name of every waypoint. So when you load your route into the PSX FMC, you'll see the MARTINI6 departure ending in VOKDA, and VODKA will be positioned properly.

So one way to fly with current procedures is to do your flight planning with PFPX.

"If you can plan the route in PFPX, you can fly the route in PSX."

[Hardy Heinlin]

Juggler's post is 3 years old, Will :-)

[CarlBB]

Maybe it was the Vodka Hardy
Cheers!

[BobDrews]

Does anyone know if I can install this program on my laptop AND my desktop computers?