Oculus Rift VR

[masselli]

Hardy-

I'm not sure if you are familiar with this device but it might be something to think about for future versions of PSX.    

http://www.oculusvr.com

Thanks,
Mark

[John Golin]

Hehe... PS 3D...  I kinda like these 3D versions though

[Joe Corrigan]

Why would you want Palmer in your VR John?

[John Golin]

I didn't realise I could get a flightdeck that came without "The Commodore" and "Occy"?  Are they optional extras?!

[lentik]

The question is after 7 years:)

Will it be possible in the future (in the near future) to have PSX connected with MSFS 2020, but this time in a vice versa version or better bi directional (with a mqtt broker for example), like we already did with real hardware. Theoretically it should be possible to connect and route all buttons and switches from MSFS 2020 to PSX and let PSX fly the airplane, but control all things in VR from MSFS 2020. So a real VR cockpit would be possible or? Sure a big project. Only thing would be: how bring we the PSX screens in MSFS 2020 (MCDU etc.)? Thats not easy, isnt it? Its just an idea, but i know it would be a very ambitious project ... so it needs people who can program these stuff and create a project like the a32nx guys ...

Just my thoughts to this interesting topic.

Sebastian

[Hardy Heinlin]

Only thing would be: how bring we the PSX screens in MSFS 2020 (MCDU etc.)? Thats not easy, isnt it?

Not easy. Not even feasible. You're underestimating the "display" world of PSX. The instrument screens are just a fraction of the PSX graphics generator; PSX also models the lamps in every switch (backlight, system light, blown bulbs, dimming), and the backlighting (dimming, bus failures, backup mode) specific to each panel segment. In other words, the entire PSX flight deck is an active display -- a very detailed display. Everything is alive, from the squib lights on the upper maintenance panel down to the EVAC and printer lights etc. on the aft aisle stand.


Regards,

|-|ardy

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

<brainstorm dream mode ON>
Given that PSX is a flat world, it may actually be geometrically more straightforward to write a projector program that takes the graphical output of PSX (intercept display driver calls) and warps it in the shape of a flight deck. This kind of 3D warping is well understood and hardware-supported. It would be at least as easy and probably easier to do, than to attempt to take the individual PSX graphical elements (down to every switch) and cram them into a MSFS virtual cockpit.

Imagine you have a wooden shell, raw wood, made in the shape of a 744 flight deck. Print photos of all real airplane cockpit surfaces, made orthogonal to that surface. Glue all these photos onto the wooden shell. With the exception of things like the yokes and the throttles, most elements would be flat enough to give you that 3D effect in terms of where is what.

I still don't think such a flight deck would be flyable. It would look ok, but it remains virtual. You cannot fly it as you don't have the tactile feedback of hands and feet on metal. To have a flyable virtual cockpit, you need a cockpit that was designed to be virtualized. Maybe Crew Dragon is a candidate.
<OFF>

[lentik]

Yes a real holodeck StarTrek like would be a further step forward no question - but these technology is not sufficient accessable yet - in the future, yes that would be realy nice.

On the subject of VR, there is a lot of movement going on in our present time and i think VR will be the new thing for training and entertainment also. For shure it would be not easy to transfer all signals like dimming and whole life of PSX in MSFS 2020 or another VR system, but in the beginning it would perhaps be sufficient to have a cockpit and all the good flying mechanics, which has a superp working LNAV, VNAV and people can serve all the buttons which are necessary to complete a long flight successfully. PSX is still without dimming and that details much more realistic than any other simulation on the market - nothing else comes close. Cant estimate how many peaple would buy PSX, if such a deep simulation can be paired with MSFS 2020 in VR mode. That would be something very special i think and it would be more functional than anything else, because it can fly and simulate all things outstanding well - thanks Hardy at this point for your wonderful work and this realy nice and functional simulation.

Airbus has an technology for VR cockpits for training planned (https://services.airbus.com/en/newsroom/stories/2019/12/airbus-brings-cockpit-to-you-with-new-virtual-reality-flight-trainer.html), so from my point of view the tactile features are not so far away from us. In 10 years we maybe will have all such things working flawlessly .

Regards,
Sebastian

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Concerning the Airbus trainer, that seems (for now) to aim at creating the experience of sitting on a flight deck with a partner and going through the motions. That would be quite well possible today. If you need to train communication, process, and other things while not actually having to move a switch or read a dial, it will work great, today. Compare two students sitting in a photo-covered shell or standing in front of a poster with an instructor, to practice before entering the real sim. It happened for decades.

If you provide a good-enough simulation of the button pushing interfaces, you can probably realistically simulate all phases of flight where operation is more important than flying. I am not a pilot but I think that from ToD to 8000 ft you should be able to operate the plane down instead of to fly it down, if you see what I mean. If everything goes as planned or within limits (ATC asking you something unexpected is totally okay; two engine failures is not).

Even on an Airbus with side stick and FBW, I am not yet convinced that holding a standard hand controller will be ok. However I can imagine a very limited feel-ok set of hand and footwares that sufficiently feel like stick and throttles to let somebody fly a plane. You don't feel seat of the pants motion but as we know in normal situations this isn't the most important cue.

[Will]

Maybe a touch screen with complicated geometry?

I'm thinking a regular monitor, with iPhone like touch screen capability, only at massive resolution, and then warped into the proper geometry of a life-size 747 cockpit?

Run PSX on that, so that all the controls are where your fingers need them to be, and project the world scenery from MSFS onto a screen outside the windshields.

[ahaka]

If you have a 747 aircraft in your sim that can be used while PSX is driving the sim i.e the the sim is the scenery generator, you could float the PSX views in the VR software and place those undocked views to their approriate positions. It should work, in theory at least.

[paradoxbox]

I think we're over-complicating things here with this.

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't PSX have very comprehensive API functions / developer friendliness built in?

My feeling tells me that the best way to handle FS2020 / VR is to simply code FS2020 gauges which read from PSX or WidePSX data. This way the gauges can be built so they display directly within FS2020 without need of Virtual Desktop etc. apps which will massively drain performance.

I suspect this may be a relatively easy gauge to code and create art for. The downside would be poor resolution (For now - maybe VR resolution will get better soon)

[Hardy Heinlin]

Most of the data displayed on PFDs, NDs, and EICAS screens is not sent into the PSX network (an ND symbol generator, for example, has to deal with thousands of variables; it's not just a simple compass "gauge" and some needles). Cockpit builders don't re-invent the graphic software for these displays; they just display the original PSX screens. So if you build a virtual cockpit, you need to do what the hardware cockpit builders do: Integrate the original PSX screens in your cockpit -- just not physically but in a virtual way, e.g. by screen capture or something like that.


|-|

[paradoxbox]

I have not looked into it at all, but I wonder if screencapture gauges would display quickly enough to allow control without any latency (input lag).

If latency is not an issue I would think this may be an ideal method for complicated displays in VR in FS2020, would it not?

[lentik]

For all buttons and switches this should not be a problem, because you can use the interface to PSX 1:1 just like you would with a normal hardware cockpit. The only problem are the PSX screens. I have never programmed VR before, but I imagine that it should be possible to project a simple 2d window into the 3d world - like here (the video is from 2014):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzfOeX-r4Ug&list=UUj_UmpoD8Ph_EcyN_xEXrUQ

Nevertheless, the effort and expense involved should not be underestimated. It would be necessary to have a 3d model of the 744 in which all buttons and switches are functional. Then you need a bi-directional interface to PSX to send and receive all functions.

For me a dream, if something like this would exist. I think for all those who can't afford or don't want a full cockpit or all those who don't have room for a full cockpit, VR would be a big step towards reality. Together with a nearly complete software like PSX, this is in the end for me the perfect simulator, in which both the realism of the cockpit view and the technical functionality of the actual aircraft could form an ideal symbiosis.

And just have a look into the glasses of the new HP Reverb 2 - its absolutely stunning what resolution will be possible ... All screens can be read without restrictions ... the font is crystal clear, simply fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR9m3i6dTrE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_z0hGEhOs8