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A B744 Wiki?

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Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Winchester, UK
Our collective interest in technical aspects of the B744 is shown by our continued interest in PS1 and its successor PSX.

Previous attempts to set up a wiki-type mechanism have failed due to a lack of delivered content. Yet our forums have never lacked high quality technical content.

I am considering setting up a wiki dedicated to all technical things B744. In order to do so, I need to guage your reactions by asking 2 main questions:

1) What areas of B744 technicals would you like to see developed and then made available?

2) Would you contribute to writing articles for a wiki on this subject? (These may need a level of research to produce them)

Once I get your reactions, I shall decide whether to go ahead and set up a B744 wiki.

Thank you in anticipation,
Cheers, Richard
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Cheers, Richard
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 214
Location: EDDM
Hi Richard,

Allthough I like Wiki I never contributed to e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B747-400.
Do you need more flexibility? Or do you expect a level of detail that is far beyond what will be accepted by wikipedia?

ref. 1) I suppose documents such as official MEL, AOM..., things not published on www.boeing.com might be interesting.
Or why is the B744 desiged such that wing anti-ice is inoperative when flaps are extended, i.e. just during the critical flight phases.
ref. 2) To be honest, I am indecisive whether I can contribute something new. I guess there are many more experienced and more knowledgable experts in this forum...

Regards, Holger
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Don't forget to put any details in your own words, don't copy original text, that would be a copyright infringement.

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Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 125
Quote
Or why is the B744 desiged such that wing anti-ice is inoperative when flaps are extended, i.e. just during the critical flight phases.


Wiki amendment #1...
Perhaps inoperative is not such a good word here. Just "disabled". AFAIK, it has nothing to do with critical phases of flight, just to prevent overheating. e.g. on the ground when there is no airflow. Since the LE flaps shield the wing leading edge from the cooling airflow when they are extended, then SOME airlines have the option of disabling the WAI with the LE's extended.

As you can see here, there is still an air slot between the variable camber LE flaps and leading edge, so there will be some cooling.

User posted image

Cheers.
Q>
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 214
Location: EDDM
Does this mean, the extended LE flaps are not heated but only the fixed wing edge? Do the flaps not build up ice for some reason?
That diagram brings up annother side question. How does the curved panel (LE extended) turn into a flat panel (retracted)? :roll:
Holger
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
I suggest to start a new thread :-)
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
Just rename this thread "The B744 Wiki" :mrgreen:
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Winchester, UK
Exactly right, Jeroen. Q has always been one of our richest source of fact.

I am happy to bring together (with links) the masses of stuff in places like Wikipedia, etc and to act as an editor.

But how much more could we expect from others?

Cheers, Richard
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Cheers, Richard
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
Maybe we can start smaller and then grow?

I do see a need coming up for an Aerowinx 747-400 Precision Simulator X Wiki. The manual will be great, but there always will be extensions and comments from users. Many of these will come to us through the Forum, but sometimes a Forum thread isn't the best way, especially when people start new threads while they should have connected to a thread that is already several months old. A Wiki with specific entries (one for each instrument, avionics box, network variable mnemonic, etc. -- good lemmas) that is used to drop recurring comments or more extensive documentation that isn't happy in a Forum thread, can go here.

The Forum itself could play a Wiki role, with thread topics used as lemmas. However this isn't very practical and does not invite to search and browse. A Forum is a Forum, a Wiki is a Wiki.

Unsolved problem: how to handle upload files and images. In principle, there is less need for these if the Wiki is specifically about PSX and not about the airplane in general.
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Winchester, UK
I am happy that you see a need for a wiki. I think that it would have to be a B747-400 wiki rather than a simulator-specific wiki. I also agree that much of the wiki content would be initiated by forum entries.

A wiki is, by definition, quite different from a forum in that a wiki tries to capture an accumulation of knowledge, clearly catalogued, whereas a forum is a set of questions and answers around a subject, but not constrained to the subject. Because of this, as we know, topics can reach far and wide, and wander off topic as well.

The beauty of having both wiki and forum should be that the forum can start a discussion around a subject and someone can then sweep up by summarising the discussion into a wiki article.

I am prepared to take the main responsibility for creating a wiki, but only if I feel that, as the wiki gets established, others will want to add their bits to it. From past experience, I feel that there are a number of people who will want to contribute. The outstanding problem is whether the contributers will be sufficient to make a wiki fly.

PS Jeroen, I don't know what a lemma is, but I once saw one in a zoo ;)

Cheers, Richard
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Cheers, Richard
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
Wikis for everything :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemma_(linguistics)
« Last edit by Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:40:51 +0000. »
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Lemma is in this context simply the title of an article in a lexicon or wiki.

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« Last edit by Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:41:04 +0000. »
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Winchester, UK
O-o-o-o-h, I see! Dumkopf!
Cheers, R ;)
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Cheers, Richard
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 479
Location: EFTO
Hardy Heinlin wrote
Lemma is in this context simply the title of an article in a lexicon or wiki.

ah! -- I was already wondering what bug might have bitten Hoppie to make him talk about one of the specialised bracts enclosing a floret in a grass inflorescence...

Still better than the Shadowing Lemma, though.

8)
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Winchester, UK
On having thought about a wiki further, I now feel that its creation may run into some practical problems.

Assuming that Hardy's manual for PSX will be at least to the excellent high quality of the PS1 manual, much of the material that might be candidate for the wiki would already be in the PSX manual. A wiki might therefore duplicate much of Hardy's hard work.

A wiki without duplicating Hardy's documentation might be rather sparse, and drawing a line between the two difficult to maintain.

Any further thoughts to help?
Cheers, Richard
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Cheers, Richard
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 497
Hi Richard,
I would like to think that the wiki should be more complimentary to the PSX manual than just duplicate. Or to be more explicit; it's in the manual it doesn't need to be in the wiki. In practical terms there might be some overlap of course, but that should not matter, really

I'm of similar mind as JeroenH. The wiki should be the vehicle in which at least all knowlegde of the forum is accumulated and categorised.

Which means that postings need to be edited and categorised. I see some similarities between your manual and the wike. Your manual was also, partly based on forum posting and edited/complemented with additional information.

I'm certainly game to help out to develop the wike and be of some assistance in editing etc. Sometimes what helps is you try and envisage what the structure and topics of such a wiki would look like. Gives perhaps some guidance to this discussion. And if you do start the wiki, it's one of the first things you need to do anyway. (At least that's how I would approach it, but I've never produced a wiki, but I have co-produced some technical manuals.

Jeroen

Jeroen
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
I can see some natural entry points (URLs) for the Wiki.

PSX manual page numbers (yes).
Common names of instruments/controls.
Check list items (per item).
Procedure names.

With this kind of entries, we can augment the PSX manual, possibly also leading to manual improvements if we do the (C) stuff correctly. Addenda, errata, background info... as if every relevant manual section has a URL: look here for more info, questions etc. on THIS section.

Incomplete Wiki? Sure. Incentive to buy PSX? Possibly.
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 214
Location: EDDM
Hi,

in the company I work for we use an Intranet based Wiki to document everything that cannot be found in the official company documents, such as application notes written by end-users, FAQs, guidelines etc. So its all really "optional" add-on information.
Duplicating information (not only from the PSX-manual(s)) is not only a copyright issue. But any duplicated information has to maintained/updated, too, and that will become an increasing effort with time. Therefore our goal should be to avoid any duplication anyway.

Annother (personal) recommendation would be to restrict creation of new pages and categories to a reasonable number of "moderators". If every registerd member can create new pages quickly, this will result in uncontrolled growth probably of similar pages and with potentially contradicting/outdated content.
I suppose, being moderator of an internet Wiki is quite a time-consuming job.

From the experiences with PS1 a huge number of posts were related to configurations with add-on software, such as IPC, Broker, WinPS1, MSFS on single or multiple computers. The same will probably become true for PSX. Even if interfacing with PSX will be easier then there might be more add-ons causing even more questions.
This topic is an excellent example to be covered in a B744-Wiki knowledge base.

Annother thing which I personally would like to see on a B744-Wiki are flying procedures such as Rets' "Technique Monthly" published on http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/1916/. Unfortunately the "Technique Monthly" series was not continued for very long :(
But I still do like that very much!

Regards, Holger
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Winchester, UK
Hi Holger,
Could you list a few headings that might be wiki candidates to illustrate what you mean?
Many thanks,
Richard
_______________
Cheers, Richard
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 214
Location: EDDM
Hi Richard,
I am not sure where exactly you need further illustrations.

There is lots of knowledge in the old forum distributed over many postings.
Just to mention typical questions (PS1 error codes, XP and Vista support, joystick calibration problems, Visual PS1, WinPS1, IPC and Microshifts etc.). All these topics and many failures are describe exhaustively but one has to search a while...
Wiki might help here if a solved error is quickly documend in Wiki in a page related to the addon names.
Examples Wiki pages might be:
- PS error codes - meanings/solutions.
- Joystick calibration
- or just a short summary of threads like this: http://744.hoppie.nl/forum.cgi/read/17689
I guess in a few years we have the same situation with PSX and related SW.


To avoid pages in Wiki with very similar content the moderators may need to give recommended page and category names for each topic. Otherwise you might end up in two users writing on the same topic: User A creates a page named "CDU" whereas user B works on the "Control Display Unit" page.
Finally user A creates the "Cockpit" category whereas user B adds his page to the "Flightdeck" category :(
That is why I would recommend to have moderators allthough it complicates maintenance and probably is another hurdle for volunteers.

And regarding flying procedures:
Like many other I am not a pilot, and therefore I have no clue whether e.g. procedures for ILS approaches and ILS-DME approaches are different from pilot point of view. But this is not really B744 related. Yet annother category...

Hope this clarifies my previous comments.

A B744-Wiki is a challenge, but I like the idea!

Regards, Holger

P.S. The PIPS document was the fist version of a "B744-Wiki" :)
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
If Wiki moderators are primarily concerned with lemma management and possily category management, including "see:" pages and other Wiki-technical non-content tricks, we could organise the lot better while the actual content isn't so much governed (though monitored).

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