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The geometry of an aerobatic loop

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« Last edit by Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:23:20 +0000. »
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I'm all for unusual attitude recovery training, but are there really people looping the 744?

I love that you are always "thinking" Hardy- normally on plane elevations several orders of magnitude greater than mine. This forum is ALWAYS educational, and so much more civilized than others.

Best- C

PS- Aaaaaaaah- I just read the post..... even Tex Johnson would draw the line at this ;)
« Last edit by cavaricooper on Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:33:27 +0000. »
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cavaricooper wrote
....., but are there really people looping the 744?


Up to now, I never thought about that. But the idea is quite interesting.... :D
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Jose Monteiro
« Last edit by jcomm on Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:56:23 +0000. »
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Of course Hardy must show us now a video of a perfect loop with the 747 :mrgreen:
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« Last edit by Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 10 Jun 2015 02:04:31 +0000. »
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So... now you're playing aerobatics with PSX.... 8)
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Jose Monteiro
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May be we really can expect barrel roll and looping demo's by Hardy some day.
(Of course with 3 engines off...).

It can be performed with a jet aircraft, in real life

Google for the name of the famous (Boeing 707) pilot "Tex Johnson" or look here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

Hessel
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I had an ex member of the USAF Thunderbirds fly my sim awhile ago. He could roll it but stalled when attempting the loop. Another friend, an instructor in the B744 for UAL said you can loop it but have deploy some flaps to make it all the way over.

You can also land it on a carrier. :D

Who'd have thought.

Cheers,

Jon
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I doubt it would be possible to slow down the 744 on a carrier :)
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I agree. You could "land it" but not stop it. No tailhook
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frumpy wrote
I doubt it would be possible to slow down the 744 on a carrier

Perfectly possible. The carrier just has to go at about 120 kn or so. Which in turn is no problem if utilizing e.g. a typhoon providing a tailwind of 100 kn or so.

It all adds up.

Cheers,
Martin

PS
Come to think of it, do we have a physics trick question here??

Assume a super-nuclear carrier is really going at 120 kn, typhoon or no.
The 744 speed at touchdown is, say 140 kn.
Will she, after touchdown, really roll down the carrier deck at a leisurely relative 20 kn (i.e. speed relative to the deck)?

Actually, didn't they do something like this once, by landing a Cessna on top of a speeding car?
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In one of my old rw sims we did exactly this. There was a model carrier moored in HKG. Harbour and if you set the sim wind straight down the carrier deck at about 90 kts it was perfectly possible to land and stop.

The real giggle came for a subsequent takeoff - you actioned the "position freeze" ( Hardy is considering this one, I know) and power up. At Vr we released the POS Freeze - it was quite dramatic!

Peter
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pUdzVnZBaoY

Hessel
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The tailwind will not help, Martin, it will not only increase the groundspeed of the carrier, but also the groundspeed of the aircraft. So the carrier must move on its own while the wind is calm, or the planet must provide headwind (not tailwind) while the carrier is stationary, or a mix of both conditions :-)


Cheers,

|-|ardy
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Hardy wrote
So the carrier must move on its own while the wind is calm

True. So, super-nuclear carrier it is, no typhoon.
(Unless it is one of those dreaded GLTs (ground layer typhoons) which reach up to but not above the altitude of a carrier deck. Triggered by big icebergs breaking through the circumfence, falling off the edge of the world, and thus creating a sudden vacuum.)

Thanks to Hessel, too, for the link!

Cheers,
Martin
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Thanks for the great information, Hardy. And martin, thanks for informing me of the GLT! It reminds me also of the 2DT, or 2-dimensional tornado. They're everywhere, the problem is just that they're impossible to perceive.
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Will /Chicago /USA
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Thx for the follow-up HH.

I just hope those fixes don't introduce "noise" within the normal flight envelope, although I confess I would really like to have PSX as sound and complete in as far as flight dynamics go, as possible :-)
_______________
Jose Monteiro

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